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	<title>Comments on: Memo to Hertz: try harder!</title>
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		<title>By: Susan</title>
		<link>http://www.consumertraveler.com/today/memo-to-hertz-try-harder/comment-page-1/#comment-17344</link>
		<dc:creator>Susan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 11:52:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.consumertraveler.com/?p=20182#comment-17344</guid>
		<description>After reading all this going back and forth, I completely understand Laura&#039;s point. I am a Gold member with Hertz, and they used to hold $50 on your cc.  Then they took it to $200 without notice.  I now rent with National, Alamo or Avis and none of those three companies places a hold on your card.  I know this because I place my rentals on cards that are near the limit intentionally.  That way there will be NO ADDITIONAL CHARGES made on my card without my knowledge.  I&#039;ve dealt with Hertz agents that have been rude, and placed tlhe blame on me when they changed the hold to $200 as though I should have known this automatically.  Well, as I am one that always rented from their prestige line, I no longer do so.  I would rather rent a full size SUV or luxury car from one of the more HONEST rental companies.  For those of you that are so very sure that ALL COMPANIES charge this, you are so very mistaken.  I rent cars from the three previously mentioned weekely, and I am never charged a hold fee.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After reading all this going back and forth, I completely understand Laura&#8217;s point. I am a Gold member with Hertz, and they used to hold $50 on your cc.  Then they took it to $200 without notice.  I now rent with National, Alamo or Avis and none of those three companies places a hold on your card.  I know this because I place my rentals on cards that are near the limit intentionally.  That way there will be NO ADDITIONAL CHARGES made on my card without my knowledge.  I&#8217;ve dealt with Hertz agents that have been rude, and placed tlhe blame on me when they changed the hold to $200 as though I should have known this automatically.  Well, as I am one that always rented from their prestige line, I no longer do so.  I would rather rent a full size SUV or luxury car from one of the more HONEST rental companies.  For those of you that are so very sure that ALL COMPANIES charge this, you are so very mistaken.  I rent cars from the three previously mentioned weekely, and I am never charged a hold fee.</p>
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		<title>By: Bodega</title>
		<link>http://www.consumertraveler.com/today/memo-to-hertz-try-harder/comment-page-1/#comment-16492</link>
		<dc:creator>Bodega</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 00:29:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.consumertraveler.com/?p=20182#comment-16492</guid>
		<description>My mistake on thinking she had used the debit card at the actual time of the reservation which isn&#039;t allowed on prepaids.  Under terms and conditions, which is right where you have to fill out your credit card information is this:

Hertz locations also accept most, but not all, debit cards. Use of a debit card to rent a vehicle is subject to a review of your credit history. A few locations do not accept debit cards at time of rental. 

So they were not going against their policy if that office allowed debit card use.

I have no argument with the lack of real information from Hertz on the Authorization amount, but my guess is they don&#039;t consider it a fee as they release the amount when the car is returned safely.  However, this isn&#039;t a new policy and as DC showed, it is found online where the initial reservation was made. I think we can all agree that it really should be included in a location that has to be noted before the reservation is completed and that would be an excellent point for the author of this column to suggest to Hertz..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My mistake on thinking she had used the debit card at the actual time of the reservation which isn&#8217;t allowed on prepaids.  Under terms and conditions, which is right where you have to fill out your credit card information is this:</p>
<p>Hertz locations also accept most, but not all, debit cards. Use of a debit card to rent a vehicle is subject to a review of your credit history. A few locations do not accept debit cards at time of rental. </p>
<p>So they were not going against their policy if that office allowed debit card use.</p>
<p>I have no argument with the lack of real information from Hertz on the Authorization amount, but my guess is they don&#8217;t consider it a fee as they release the amount when the car is returned safely.  However, this isn&#8217;t a new policy and as DC showed, it is found online where the initial reservation was made. I think we can all agree that it really should be included in a location that has to be noted before the reservation is completed and that would be an excellent point for the author of this column to suggest to Hertz..</p>
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		<title>By: Ed</title>
		<link>http://www.consumertraveler.com/today/memo-to-hertz-try-harder/comment-page-1/#comment-16490</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 00:16:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.consumertraveler.com/?p=20182#comment-16490</guid>
		<description>I found that when dealing with money and credit cards, it&#039;s best to *NOT* volunteer possible reasons why the money information is wrong...
Your mistake, &quot;I explain I believe this occurred because Hertz did me a ‘favor’ and substituted the debit card instead of canceling the original reservation and starting over. He stresses this is still a great favor because they could have canceled the reservation and started a new one with a much higher rate, or not given me a car at all with so little inventory.&quot;
Like in every Columbo movie...the suspect who has the most plausible reason for the murder is most likely the one who did it. Never volunteer information...let them figure it out...and if the other person is inept enough, they may err in your favor!
Ed</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I found that when dealing with money and credit cards, it&#8217;s best to *NOT* volunteer possible reasons why the money information is wrong&#8230;<br />
Your mistake, &#8220;I explain I believe this occurred because Hertz did me a ‘favor’ and substituted the debit card instead of canceling the original reservation and starting over. He stresses this is still a great favor because they could have canceled the reservation and started a new one with a much higher rate, or not given me a car at all with so little inventory.&#8221;<br />
Like in every Columbo movie&#8230;the suspect who has the most plausible reason for the murder is most likely the one who did it. Never volunteer information&#8230;let them figure it out&#8230;and if the other person is inept enough, they may err in your favor!<br />
Ed</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Morgan</title>
		<link>http://www.consumertraveler.com/today/memo-to-hertz-try-harder/comment-page-1/#comment-16469</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Morgan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 16:28:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.consumertraveler.com/?p=20182#comment-16469</guid>
		<description>Separately, I notice nobody addressed her first point of asking the customer to pay for an upgrade that he/she was likely to get for free if the upgrade offer was declined.

I&#039;m not that bothered by this, Laura; Hertz could have walked your reservation to another company that did have the right size car for you, but they wanted to keep your business. If I were them, I&#039;d have candidly admitted up front that they had a glitch in availability, and rather than walk you, they&#039;d like to offer you the upgraded vehicle at half the normal &quot;upgrade&quot; fee, or something like that. You get a better deal on the bigger vehicle than if you&#039;d ordered it initially, they get a rate closer to what they should get for the bigger vehicle, they keep your business, and you get a Hertz vehicle - which, frankly, I think is worth something. You were certainly within your rights to decline to pay for the upgrade, of course, because Hertz should have kept at least one vehicle of your reserved class for your prepaid.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Separately, I notice nobody addressed her first point of asking the customer to pay for an upgrade that he/she was likely to get for free if the upgrade offer was declined.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not that bothered by this, Laura; Hertz could have walked your reservation to another company that did have the right size car for you, but they wanted to keep your business. If I were them, I&#8217;d have candidly admitted up front that they had a glitch in availability, and rather than walk you, they&#8217;d like to offer you the upgraded vehicle at half the normal &#8220;upgrade&#8221; fee, or something like that. You get a better deal on the bigger vehicle than if you&#8217;d ordered it initially, they get a rate closer to what they should get for the bigger vehicle, they keep your business, and you get a Hertz vehicle &#8211; which, frankly, I think is worth something. You were certainly within your rights to decline to pay for the upgrade, of course, because Hertz should have kept at least one vehicle of your reserved class for your prepaid.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Morgan</title>
		<link>http://www.consumertraveler.com/today/memo-to-hertz-try-harder/comment-page-1/#comment-16467</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Morgan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 16:22:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.consumertraveler.com/?p=20182#comment-16467</guid>
		<description>Bodega,

With respect, I do think that you ARE missing the point.

Laura didn&#039;t make the final decision on using that debit card; the Hertz agent accepted it. Whether he did it as a favor or not, by accepting it, he knowingly *waived* that portion of the contract that prohibits debit card use - so she didn&#039;t &quot;violate&quot; anything.

Second, her point is that no matter what may be posted on the website, her actual *rental contract* makes no mention of the $200 authorization for &quot;incidentals&quot; placed on the credit card. Hertz might argue that the fee is &quot;incorporated by reference&quot; to the website terms, but by that argument, anything and everything might be included in the contract by simply posting it on the website - even after she agreed to the contract terms. And if they can incorporate so much by reference, why have four pages of legalese - and omit such a key point?

And therein lies a crucial point: had they disclosed that $200 authorization up-front, in nice big bold letters, Laura would have known that&#039;s the amount that would be &quot;held&quot; on her card, and she&#039;d have known she might need to reserve on another card.

In fact, most of these problems can be traced back to that disclosure issue - if Hertz told customers up front BEFORE booking that a hold/authorization of X dollars would be placed on their credit card at the time of rental, most of these problems wouldn&#039;t have happened.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bodega,</p>
<p>With respect, I do think that you ARE missing the point.</p>
<p>Laura didn&#8217;t make the final decision on using that debit card; the Hertz agent accepted it. Whether he did it as a favor or not, by accepting it, he knowingly *waived* that portion of the contract that prohibits debit card use &#8211; so she didn&#8217;t &#8220;violate&#8221; anything.</p>
<p>Second, her point is that no matter what may be posted on the website, her actual *rental contract* makes no mention of the $200 authorization for &#8220;incidentals&#8221; placed on the credit card. Hertz might argue that the fee is &#8220;incorporated by reference&#8221; to the website terms, but by that argument, anything and everything might be included in the contract by simply posting it on the website &#8211; even after she agreed to the contract terms. And if they can incorporate so much by reference, why have four pages of legalese &#8211; and omit such a key point?</p>
<p>And therein lies a crucial point: had they disclosed that $200 authorization up-front, in nice big bold letters, Laura would have known that&#8217;s the amount that would be &#8220;held&#8221; on her card, and she&#8217;d have known she might need to reserve on another card.</p>
<p>In fact, most of these problems can be traced back to that disclosure issue &#8211; if Hertz told customers up front BEFORE booking that a hold/authorization of X dollars would be placed on their credit card at the time of rental, most of these problems wouldn&#8217;t have happened.</p>
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		<title>By: Bodega</title>
		<link>http://www.consumertraveler.com/today/memo-to-hertz-try-harder/comment-page-1/#comment-16453</link>
		<dc:creator>Bodega</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 04:04:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.consumertraveler.com/?p=20182#comment-16453</guid>
		<description>We are not missing the point. 

First off, you didn&#039;t read the information that is right at the top of the page for prepaids where it says you CAN NOT use a debit card. I just booked a car at Hertz.com to check this out.  You violated ther terms of your reservation by using your debit card. There is also a fee for switching cards on a prepaid.  Most likely the counter agent coded your rebooking as a cancellation first which then would be a forfeiture of your original amount, even though you were told something else.  That was wrong on Hertz&#039;s part.  But you should have been charged a fee for the change of credit card.

The term Hertz uses for the hold or as you called it a deposit is, Authorization.  They also don&#039;t mention that they could keep you from renting if they check your driving record and it doesn&#039;t meet with their approval. These should be more readily accessible at the time of reservation when booking online.  Now, it isn&#039;t their problem if a renter is too close to there limit and gets a fee  charged by their credit card company for going over.  Some cards will be declined since some card companies don&#039;t allow for going over a limit.  Some car companies have been known to &#039;authorize&#039; more than $200.  This is why we never recommend using a card that is close to a limit.  We always advise of the &#039;authorization&#039;.  

I guess you learned something new today and that by booking online, you don&#039;t always get all the needed information.  I bet you&#039;ll be better prepared on your next rental.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We are not missing the point. </p>
<p>First off, you didn&#8217;t read the information that is right at the top of the page for prepaids where it says you CAN NOT use a debit card. I just booked a car at Hertz.com to check this out.  You violated ther terms of your reservation by using your debit card. There is also a fee for switching cards on a prepaid.  Most likely the counter agent coded your rebooking as a cancellation first which then would be a forfeiture of your original amount, even though you were told something else.  That was wrong on Hertz&#8217;s part.  But you should have been charged a fee for the change of credit card.</p>
<p>The term Hertz uses for the hold or as you called it a deposit is, Authorization.  They also don&#8217;t mention that they could keep you from renting if they check your driving record and it doesn&#8217;t meet with their approval. These should be more readily accessible at the time of reservation when booking online.  Now, it isn&#8217;t their problem if a renter is too close to there limit and gets a fee  charged by their credit card company for going over.  Some cards will be declined since some card companies don&#8217;t allow for going over a limit.  Some car companies have been known to &#8216;authorize&#8217; more than $200.  This is why we never recommend using a card that is close to a limit.  We always advise of the &#8216;authorization&#8217;.  </p>
<p>I guess you learned something new today and that by booking online, you don&#8217;t always get all the needed information.  I bet you&#8217;ll be better prepared on your next rental.</p>
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		<title>By: Vacationagent</title>
		<link>http://www.consumertraveler.com/today/memo-to-hertz-try-harder/comment-page-1/#comment-16445</link>
		<dc:creator>Vacationagent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 20:42:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.consumertraveler.com/?p=20182#comment-16445</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m surprised that Hertz would agree to let the car go to the Florida Keys. Living in the same area where a rental begins usually means a different rental agreement than the one you get when you&#039;re flying into a location. If the counter agents hadn&#039;t been so busy, they might have found more fine print to point out that would have prohibited taking the car past a neighboring state. 

I think you should consider yourself lucky.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m surprised that Hertz would agree to let the car go to the Florida Keys. Living in the same area where a rental begins usually means a different rental agreement than the one you get when you&#8217;re flying into a location. If the counter agents hadn&#8217;t been so busy, they might have found more fine print to point out that would have prohibited taking the car past a neighboring state. </p>
<p>I think you should consider yourself lucky.</p>
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		<title>By: Laura Townsend Elion</title>
		<link>http://www.consumertraveler.com/today/memo-to-hertz-try-harder/comment-page-1/#comment-16444</link>
		<dc:creator>Laura Townsend Elion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 20:37:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.consumertraveler.com/?p=20182#comment-16444</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not going to address each theory or inaccuracy above separately so here goes:

My main complaint with the $200 deposit was that it was not disclosed. I know some feel they have &#039;proven&#039; that it is, but I have 4 pages of contract (that I may have to scan in) to show it was not disclosed to me.  And I got Mr. Kleinschmidt, the BWI Hertz guy, to admit to me that it was not disclosed PRIOR to booking.

Not sure why folks are trying to give Hertz an out by saying a criminal could book something to my card, that&#039;s true in any case, for anything. Presumably there&#039;s some accountability for that because at the counter you also have to provide your driver&#039;s license - if you don&#039;t know that, you must&#039;ve never rented a car.

My credit card transactions are available to me in real time, so the charges there were valid charges. Not sure about your bank. Plus I later called my bank to confirm. Since I figured it would get straightened out on the return I didn&#039;t file a dispute, but I could have - my bank offered me that solution.

Hertz did credit back the difference after the car was returned - my problem was that they double-charged to begin with (&amp; especially when they claimed the Capital One charge wouldn&#039;t go through - it obviously did!) 

So, for those not keeping up, Hertz tells me at the counter that  my online reservation with Capital One is no good &amp; they need another card, which they charge, only for me to find out they charged BOTH Capital One &amp; my Visa debit.

There&#039;s nothing wrong with making a decision to max out one card if its yours - I have several cards and routinely will max out one, put it aside and use others so I don&#039;t have to figure out during a long trip which card has how much left on its limit. I never said I had maxxed out my ONLY card. And, oh, I have a very good credit score.

It&#039;s even possible since I escalated my conversations on this with Hertz last week, that some of the &quot;proof&#039; your are presenting in the form of website verbiage was changed since I booked.

I mention in my article that Hertz broke the conditions on its own contract - it&#039;s not supposed to allow you to substitute a debit card for a credit card - it&#039;s supposed to cancel the original transaction.  Because Hertz broke its own rule, this is the crux of why I got double-charged.

As for the comment about the company not knowing it I would return the car with gas?  I prepaid for the entire tank, so not a potential incidental liability. As for the rental company not knowing if I could pay for the car upon return? That&#039;s why they charged me upfront - and to be perfectly clear - I was charged for the entire rental balance TWICE, plus a deposit. Hertz had at least double the amount of rental costs upfront - apparently some folks keep missing that point!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not going to address each theory or inaccuracy above separately so here goes:</p>
<p>My main complaint with the $200 deposit was that it was not disclosed. I know some feel they have &#8216;proven&#8217; that it is, but I have 4 pages of contract (that I may have to scan in) to show it was not disclosed to me.  And I got Mr. Kleinschmidt, the BWI Hertz guy, to admit to me that it was not disclosed PRIOR to booking.</p>
<p>Not sure why folks are trying to give Hertz an out by saying a criminal could book something to my card, that&#8217;s true in any case, for anything. Presumably there&#8217;s some accountability for that because at the counter you also have to provide your driver&#8217;s license &#8211; if you don&#8217;t know that, you must&#8217;ve never rented a car.</p>
<p>My credit card transactions are available to me in real time, so the charges there were valid charges. Not sure about your bank. Plus I later called my bank to confirm. Since I figured it would get straightened out on the return I didn&#8217;t file a dispute, but I could have &#8211; my bank offered me that solution.</p>
<p>Hertz did credit back the difference after the car was returned &#8211; my problem was that they double-charged to begin with (&#038; especially when they claimed the Capital One charge wouldn&#8217;t go through &#8211; it obviously did!) </p>
<p>So, for those not keeping up, Hertz tells me at the counter that  my online reservation with Capital One is no good &#038; they need another card, which they charge, only for me to find out they charged BOTH Capital One &#038; my Visa debit.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s nothing wrong with making a decision to max out one card if its yours &#8211; I have several cards and routinely will max out one, put it aside and use others so I don&#8217;t have to figure out during a long trip which card has how much left on its limit. I never said I had maxxed out my ONLY card. And, oh, I have a very good credit score.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s even possible since I escalated my conversations on this with Hertz last week, that some of the &#8220;proof&#8217; your are presenting in the form of website verbiage was changed since I booked.</p>
<p>I mention in my article that Hertz broke the conditions on its own contract &#8211; it&#8217;s not supposed to allow you to substitute a debit card for a credit card &#8211; it&#8217;s supposed to cancel the original transaction.  Because Hertz broke its own rule, this is the crux of why I got double-charged.</p>
<p>As for the comment about the company not knowing it I would return the car with gas?  I prepaid for the entire tank, so not a potential incidental liability. As for the rental company not knowing if I could pay for the car upon return? That&#8217;s why they charged me upfront &#8211; and to be perfectly clear &#8211; I was charged for the entire rental balance TWICE, plus a deposit. Hertz had at least double the amount of rental costs upfront &#8211; apparently some folks keep missing that point!</p>
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		<title>By: DCTA</title>
		<link>http://www.consumertraveler.com/today/memo-to-hertz-try-harder/comment-page-1/#comment-16440</link>
		<dc:creator>DCTA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 19:20:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.consumertraveler.com/?p=20182#comment-16440</guid>
		<description>Admittedly it is not in the easiest place to find, but it is there.....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Admittedly it is not in the easiest place to find, but it is there&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>By: DCTA</title>
		<link>http://www.consumertraveler.com/today/memo-to-hertz-try-harder/comment-page-1/#comment-16438</link>
		<dc:creator>DCTA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 19:07:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.consumertraveler.com/?p=20182#comment-16438</guid>
		<description>I found it right away on the Hertz website - why do self-bookers always blame the on-line agency booking/engine?

Here it is:
 	
 	An authorization is required based on the estimated rental charges.  In order to cover incidental charges, such as extra hour charges if the vehicle is returned late, we require credit approval for up to $200.00 over the total estimated rental charges.  Approval for this additional amount cannot be waived.  If authorization for the estimated amount cannot be obtained, the rental will be denied. 

Additional authorizations (holds) will also be obtained if the vehicle is not returned on the date/time noted on the Rental Agreement or if the original terms of the rental change which result in additional charges. 
I&#039;ve returned the Hertz vehicle, why is there still a hold on my credit/debit card</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I found it right away on the Hertz website &#8211; why do self-bookers always blame the on-line agency booking/engine?</p>
<p>Here it is:</p>
<p> 	An authorization is required based on the estimated rental charges.  In order to cover incidental charges, such as extra hour charges if the vehicle is returned late, we require credit approval for up to $200.00 over the total estimated rental charges.  Approval for this additional amount cannot be waived.  If authorization for the estimated amount cannot be obtained, the rental will be denied. </p>
<p>Additional authorizations (holds) will also be obtained if the vehicle is not returned on the date/time noted on the Rental Agreement or if the original terms of the rental change which result in additional charges.<br />
I&#8217;ve returned the Hertz vehicle, why is there still a hold on my credit/debit card</p>
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