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	<title>Comments on: Airlines think we are fools &#8212; don&#8217;t prove them right</title>
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		<title>By: Frank</title>
		<link>http://www.consumertraveler.com/today/airlines-think-we-are-fools-dont-prove-them-right/comment-page-1/#comment-6675</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Sep 2008 16:43:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tripso.com/?p=5416#comment-6675</guid>
		<description>On September 17th, 2008 at 10:27 pm Prof Burgos said 

Here’s a class non-answer answer I received from UA about simply raising airfares and being honest about it.
=====================================================

what part of that didnt you understand?  AIR FARES on the internet are shown by the LOWEST FARE on the first page and so on and so on.  Airlines are under great pressure to keep their AIR FARES on the first page or RISK having their fares buried on other pages within the site!!!  Consumers, generally stay on that first page, hence, &quot;simply raising&quot; airfares CAN NOT be the answer.  Even for a $10 dollar increase.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On September 17th, 2008 at 10:27 pm Prof Burgos said </p>
<p>Here’s a class non-answer answer I received from UA about simply raising airfares and being honest about it.<br />
=====================================================</p>
<p>what part of that didnt you understand?  AIR FARES on the internet are shown by the LOWEST FARE on the first page and so on and so on.  Airlines are under great pressure to keep their AIR FARES on the first page or RISK having their fares buried on other pages within the site!!!  Consumers, generally stay on that first page, hence, &#8220;simply raising&#8221; airfares CAN NOT be the answer.  Even for a $10 dollar increase.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Johnson</title>
		<link>http://www.consumertraveler.com/today/airlines-think-we-are-fools-dont-prove-them-right/comment-page-1/#comment-6673</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Sep 2008 16:26:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tripso.com/?p=5416#comment-6673</guid>
		<description>Well Envie,

I&#039;ve grown tired after 8 years as a Chairman&#039;s Preferred of airlines treating the customer as the enemy. The entire industry has customer satisfaction ratings BELOW that of the IRS and that Envie is all one really need say. But I&#039;m feeling a bit verbose today so thus the rant shall continue. 

Airline Senior Management IMO thinks the flying public is genuinely stupid and sadly each day customers do things to support that perception.

However it is NOT the price of fuel that is causing the fee explosion. What&#039;s happening is decades of bad, out of touch management is finally being brought to light by the fuel crisis. All of the BK&#039;s, outsourcing &amp; fees can not hide the facts that operation ineffiencies have made the legacy carrier uncompetitive against true LCC&#039;s like Southwest.

Southwest turns an Aircraft on average 31 minutes faster which allows them to have about a 20% advantage in aircraft utilization and an even greater utilization of ground staff. In aviation time IS money . I know of no aircraft type that genereates money while on the ground.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well Envie,</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve grown tired after 8 years as a Chairman&#8217;s Preferred of airlines treating the customer as the enemy. The entire industry has customer satisfaction ratings BELOW that of the IRS and that Envie is all one really need say. But I&#8217;m feeling a bit verbose today so thus the rant shall continue. </p>
<p>Airline Senior Management IMO thinks the flying public is genuinely stupid and sadly each day customers do things to support that perception.</p>
<p>However it is NOT the price of fuel that is causing the fee explosion. What&#8217;s happening is decades of bad, out of touch management is finally being brought to light by the fuel crisis. All of the BK&#8217;s, outsourcing &amp; fees can not hide the facts that operation ineffiencies have made the legacy carrier uncompetitive against true LCC&#8217;s like Southwest.</p>
<p>Southwest turns an Aircraft on average 31 minutes faster which allows them to have about a 20% advantage in aircraft utilization and an even greater utilization of ground staff. In aviation time IS money . I know of no aircraft type that genereates money while on the ground.</p>
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		<title>By: Prof Burgos</title>
		<link>http://www.consumertraveler.com/today/airlines-think-we-are-fools-dont-prove-them-right/comment-page-1/#comment-6640</link>
		<dc:creator>Prof Burgos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Sep 2008 03:27:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tripso.com/?p=5416#comment-6640</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s a nice thought, envie.  what about people who MUST take more stuff?  Like parents traveling with children?  Frankly I&#039;d like to see a surcharge on Mr. Businessman who keeps knocking me in the head with his friggin&#039; projector screen, ordered from the back pages of the in-flight magazine.  Why doesn&#039;t HE carry less?

Here&#039;s a class non-answer answer I received from UA about simply raising airfares and being honest about it.  I love the bit about &quot;tailored services,&quot; like people are buying airline tickets from Savile Row:

Dear Dr. B:

I regret to learn about your disappointment with the increase in extra
charges for our various services.

We understand your dissatisfaction with the increase in extra charges.
Most airlines base fees on the cost of doing business at a realistic
profit.  Since our customers need specific services for a variety of
reasons, we consider such factors as customer demand, type of service
needed, as well as the fees charged by our competitors.  Please know
that fees for specific services allow us to tailor our products and
services around what our customers value most and are willing to pay
for.  Other products we have customized include Economy Plus seating and
Buy on Board products.  Still, your comments are important to us and I
will share your views with our baggage management team responsible for
policies.  Your feedback will help us evaluate our decisions that impact
your choice of airline.   

As a Premier Executive member, we truly value your business and look
forward for your continued support.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s a nice thought, envie.  what about people who MUST take more stuff?  Like parents traveling with children?  Frankly I&#8217;d like to see a surcharge on Mr. Businessman who keeps knocking me in the head with his friggin&#8217; projector screen, ordered from the back pages of the in-flight magazine.  Why doesn&#8217;t HE carry less?</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a class non-answer answer I received from UA about simply raising airfares and being honest about it.  I love the bit about &#8220;tailored services,&#8221; like people are buying airline tickets from Savile Row:</p>
<p>Dear Dr. B:</p>
<p>I regret to learn about your disappointment with the increase in extra<br />
charges for our various services.</p>
<p>We understand your dissatisfaction with the increase in extra charges.<br />
Most airlines base fees on the cost of doing business at a realistic<br />
profit.  Since our customers need specific services for a variety of<br />
reasons, we consider such factors as customer demand, type of service<br />
needed, as well as the fees charged by our competitors.  Please know<br />
that fees for specific services allow us to tailor our products and<br />
services around what our customers value most and are willing to pay<br />
for.  Other products we have customized include Economy Plus seating and<br />
Buy on Board products.  Still, your comments are important to us and I<br />
will share your views with our baggage management team responsible for<br />
policies.  Your feedback will help us evaluate our decisions that impact<br />
your choice of airline.   </p>
<p>As a Premier Executive member, we truly value your business and look<br />
forward for your continued support.</p>
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		<title>By: envie</title>
		<link>http://www.consumertraveler.com/today/airlines-think-we-are-fools-dont-prove-them-right/comment-page-1/#comment-6628</link>
		<dc:creator>envie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Sep 2008 00:51:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tripso.com/?p=5416#comment-6628</guid>
		<description>I have grown tired of the complaints about extra baggage fees. Here is the consumer choice: 1) EVERYONE pay more for air fare price increases or 2) people who want to take more stuff pay more to take their stuff. I like #2. 
The airlines are not out to screw people over - they are trying to stay in business. 
Just because the price of oil went down today, it doesn&#039;t make up for a whole summer of lost profit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have grown tired of the complaints about extra baggage fees. Here is the consumer choice: 1) EVERYONE pay more for air fare price increases or 2) people who want to take more stuff pay more to take their stuff. I like #2.<br />
The airlines are not out to screw people over &#8211; they are trying to stay in business.<br />
Just because the price of oil went down today, it doesn&#8217;t make up for a whole summer of lost profit.</p>
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		<title>By: Frank</title>
		<link>http://www.consumertraveler.com/today/airlines-think-we-are-fools-dont-prove-them-right/comment-page-1/#comment-6625</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 23:28:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tripso.com/?p=5416#comment-6625</guid>
		<description>by Charlie Leocha
United blamed their baggage fee bombshell on “higher jet fuel costs.” Who do they think they are fooling? Oil prices and jet fuel prices have dropped from a high of the $140s to the $90s over the past few months. Horse hockey!
===========================================================

Oil at $140 would of caused half the industry to liquidate if those prices held while everyone burned through their assets AND/OR CASH.  $90 dollars and a WEAK ECONOMY, load factors declining.  The summer HIGH SEASON should of been the industry&#039;s PROFIT TIME, IT WAS NOT.  The industry LOST Billions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>by Charlie Leocha<br />
United blamed their baggage fee bombshell on “higher jet fuel costs.” Who do they think they are fooling? Oil prices and jet fuel prices have dropped from a high of the $140s to the $90s over the past few months. Horse hockey!<br />
===========================================================</p>
<p>Oil at $140 would of caused half the industry to liquidate if those prices held while everyone burned through their assets AND/OR CASH.  $90 dollars and a WEAK ECONOMY, load factors declining.  The summer HIGH SEASON should of been the industry&#8217;s PROFIT TIME, IT WAS NOT.  The industry LOST Billions.</p>
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		<title>By: Frank</title>
		<link>http://www.consumertraveler.com/today/airlines-think-we-are-fools-dont-prove-them-right/comment-page-1/#comment-6624</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 23:19:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tripso.com/?p=5416#comment-6624</guid>
		<description>On September 17th, 2008 at 9:45 am Charlie Leocha said Ah! The overall pricing model used by the airlines is another discussion. I’ll be writing about that as well. Their airfare model is amazingly cheap when compared to trains and driving and the time involved.
=======================================================

This is the pricing model....you are paying for the FLIGHT, all other SERVICES are now extra.  
 But, MOST people know to check in ONE BAG and use the ONE BAG RULE, ONE PERSONAL ITEM to avoid paying another bag charge.  Most passengers on this route would be traveling via rollerboard.  You forgot to mention that MOST airlines exempt their best customers of any BAG FEES.  Also dont charge for wheelchair checkin, car seats, strollers.
I disagree with you that these bag fees are hidden, most travelers are very travel &quot;experienced&quot;, they not only know, but know how to AVOID THEM.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On September 17th, 2008 at 9:45 am Charlie Leocha said Ah! The overall pricing model used by the airlines is another discussion. I’ll be writing about that as well. Their airfare model is amazingly cheap when compared to trains and driving and the time involved.<br />
=======================================================</p>
<p>This is the pricing model&#8230;.you are paying for the FLIGHT, all other SERVICES are now extra.<br />
 But, MOST people know to check in ONE BAG and use the ONE BAG RULE, ONE PERSONAL ITEM to avoid paying another bag charge.  Most passengers on this route would be traveling via rollerboard.  You forgot to mention that MOST airlines exempt their best customers of any BAG FEES.  Also dont charge for wheelchair checkin, car seats, strollers.<br />
I disagree with you that these bag fees are hidden, most travelers are very travel &#8220;experienced&#8221;, they not only know, but know how to AVOID THEM.</p>
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		<title>By: Prof Burgos</title>
		<link>http://www.consumertraveler.com/today/airlines-think-we-are-fools-dont-prove-them-right/comment-page-1/#comment-6602</link>
		<dc:creator>Prof Burgos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 18:06:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tripso.com/?p=5416#comment-6602</guid>
		<description>Or a golf bag.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Or a golf bag.</p>
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		<title>By: Janice Hough</title>
		<link>http://www.consumertraveler.com/today/airlines-think-we-are-fools-dont-prove-them-right/comment-page-1/#comment-6599</link>
		<dc:creator>Janice Hough</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 16:16:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tripso.com/?p=5416#comment-6599</guid>
		<description>Hey Charlie, and you didn&#039;t add what happens if you have a 51 pound bag.   The cost is now $125.00 each way.    Fortunately most people can adjust  a slightly overweight bag but if you can&#039;t.... well the bag may well cost more than you do.   And most people are a little heavier than 50 pounds.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Charlie, and you didn&#8217;t add what happens if you have a 51 pound bag.   The cost is now $125.00 each way.    Fortunately most people can adjust  a slightly overweight bag but if you can&#8217;t&#8230;. well the bag may well cost more than you do.   And most people are a little heavier than 50 pounds.</p>
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		<title>By: Charlie Leocha</title>
		<link>http://www.consumertraveler.com/today/airlines-think-we-are-fools-dont-prove-them-right/comment-page-1/#comment-6594</link>
		<dc:creator>Charlie Leocha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 14:45:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tripso.com/?p=5416#comment-6594</guid>
		<description>Ah! The overall pricing model used by the airlines is another discussion. I&#039;ll be writing about that as well. Their airfare model is amazingly cheap when compared to trains and driving and the time involved.

My point here is that the airfare while very reasonable can increase dramatically when baggage fees are included... and those fees are basically hidden until the last stages of a reservation ... and consumers in many cases don&#039;t factor them into the overall trip costs.

Airlines are counting on that. They are using the base airfare as their competitive tool for online displays and hiding the extra fees until later.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah! The overall pricing model used by the airlines is another discussion. I&#8217;ll be writing about that as well. Their airfare model is amazingly cheap when compared to trains and driving and the time involved.</p>
<p>My point here is that the airfare while very reasonable can increase dramatically when baggage fees are included&#8230; and those fees are basically hidden until the last stages of a reservation &#8230; and consumers in many cases don&#8217;t factor them into the overall trip costs.</p>
<p>Airlines are counting on that. They are using the base airfare as their competitive tool for online displays and hiding the extra fees until later.</p>
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		<title>By: Frank</title>
		<link>http://www.consumertraveler.com/today/airlines-think-we-are-fools-dont-prove-them-right/comment-page-1/#comment-6592</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 14:29:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tripso.com/?p=5416#comment-6592</guid>
		<description>I just checked flights from Boston to Baltimore in mid-October. The round trip, including taxes, comes in at $159. That sounds great, but with United’s hidden baggage charges for anyone carrying two bags that means paying an additional $130. That’s amazing! In effect, United only charges $29 more for transporting a human (and giving them a soda or water) than they charge for two bags. This baggage charge thing has gotten out of hand.

Boston to Baltimore/Washington = $159
Initially hidden baggage charges = $130
Total = $289
=============================================================

Can you back up your statistics with HOW MANY people actually check TWO bags?
If you drove this trip between BOS and BWI, it would cost you $112 DOLLARS just in gas money.  It&#039;s 700 miles roundtrip.  4 dollar a gallon gas and your car gets 25 miles to the gallon.  I didnt even add in ROAD TOLLS.  Let&#039;s add in another $20 dollars for tolls.  Your total:  

GAS from BOS to BWI= $112 dollars
Tolls each way=$40 dollars
Total= $152 DOLLARS ROUND TRIP...................and for SEVEN more dollars, you can FLY, NOT CHECK A BAG (like most business travelers do) and BE THERE IN JUST OVER AN &quot;HOUR&quot;.

....Oh, wait, you stopped to eat at McD&#039;s.  There went that SEVEN dollars.
So, SEVEN HOURS ON THE ROAD (most likely in traffic) or 90 MINUTES flying with a rollaboard?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just checked flights from Boston to Baltimore in mid-October. The round trip, including taxes, comes in at $159. That sounds great, but with United’s hidden baggage charges for anyone carrying two bags that means paying an additional $130. That’s amazing! In effect, United only charges $29 more for transporting a human (and giving them a soda or water) than they charge for two bags. This baggage charge thing has gotten out of hand.</p>
<p>Boston to Baltimore/Washington = $159<br />
Initially hidden baggage charges = $130<br />
Total = $289<br />
=============================================================</p>
<p>Can you back up your statistics with HOW MANY people actually check TWO bags?<br />
If you drove this trip between BOS and BWI, it would cost you $112 DOLLARS just in gas money.  It&#8217;s 700 miles roundtrip.  4 dollar a gallon gas and your car gets 25 miles to the gallon.  I didnt even add in ROAD TOLLS.  Let&#8217;s add in another $20 dollars for tolls.  Your total:  </p>
<p>GAS from BOS to BWI= $112 dollars<br />
Tolls each way=$40 dollars<br />
Total= $152 DOLLARS ROUND TRIP&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.and for SEVEN more dollars, you can FLY, NOT CHECK A BAG (like most business travelers do) and BE THERE IN JUST OVER AN &#8220;HOUR&#8221;.</p>
<p>&#8230;.Oh, wait, you stopped to eat at McD&#8217;s.  There went that SEVEN dollars.<br />
So, SEVEN HOURS ON THE ROAD (most likely in traffic) or 90 MINUTES flying with a rollaboard?</p>
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