As a United elite status flier, I long ago decided to do what many frequent fliers do: Make your peace with putting up with one airline on a regular basis, in order to get miles and occasional perks. And one of the biggest perks these days is not paying basic checked luggage fees.
On an upcoming trip to join a cruise, however, United’s schedule doesn’t work. So we were faced with a choice between Southwest and Virgin America from San Francisco to San Diego.
Trying Virgin seemed like a logical experiment, as I have heard very mixed reports for clients. And both they and Southwest had the same $75 one-way airfare. Except that we are three people going on a cruise for one week. Which means probably at least a checked bag per person. Probably four total, with shared a garment bag.
Now, Virgin America isn’t the most expensive of domestic carriers for luggage fees, far from it. They charge $20 a bag, for up to 10 bags. (Most U.S airlines charge $20 for the first, $30 for the second, and $100 and up for a third.)
But still, for a 450 mile flight, that’s probably $80 extra, more than the price of buying another ticket. Not surprisingly, we decided to stick with Southwest and save the money.
Now, had it been a longer trip we might have considered Virgin. Somehow the $20 doesn’t seem as bad when they have to fly a bag across the country. And it brings up an interesting point…except for the U.S. post office with flat rate envelopes, nobody charges the same amount to ship things different distances.
Except the airlines.
The problem with changing this policy from the airlines’ point of view is that this would be one more thing to slow things down at the airport. Although presumably, the same automatic kiosk that knows where you are flying knows how many miles you are flying.
But it would be nice to have a discount luggage rate for short nonstop flights. (Who am I kidding? The more likely scenario is the airlines starting to charge more for longer or connecting flights?)
For that matter, while we are dreaming, it would be nice to have a total weight-pricing concept. There is something a little frustrating about a 120 pound woman with two 25 pound bags paying $50 more for a flight than an 250 pound man.
In the meantime, I hear Southwest has been able to increase their load factors slightly with their “free bag” rule. (And good for them.) In fact, pointing this out to families traveling together has made for some very grateful agency clients.
(Photo by puregin/flickr.com/creative commons)
{ 28 comments… read them below or add one }
Janet,I hope you meant this tongue and cheek. So far I have read three of your articles;and really I was not impressed,It is obvious that you are a liberal. I assume Chris Elliot is to. However his articles provide genuine excellent advice period. Please use your excellent journalist skills and information to write more substantial consumer advice .
I may be completely wrong here, but I’d suspect more of the actual cost of checked baggage to the airline comes in during the tagging, sorting, loading, unloading, transferring, etc processes and the associated labor rather than the incremental fuel needed to carry a bag on the flight. All of the former being cost considerations that don’t change with trip distance. At the risk of looking like I support what’s obviously an arbitrary money-grab fee, I’d at least hypothesize this could be a somewhat logical reason why it doesn’t vary by flight distance.
Please don’t give the airlines any other ideas! They already “fee” us to death, or at least into doing business with airlines that don’t.
OK….?????
I’m trying to figure out how a discussion of airline baggage fees makes one a liberal.
Even with a doctoral degree, I can’t do it.
Can it possibly be argued that since more travelers do smaller hops than bigger ones, that reducing baggage fees for shorter flights would mean much less profit for airlines? I am mostly thinking in terms of Hawaii, where island hopping by air is the only way to go since Superferry officially died.
Also, as a former business analyst, I guess I should point out that, like many consumer services that involve both labor and machinery, there are fixed, upfront costs, and then incidental basis costs.
Mostly, I suspect, the bulk of the cost to transport luggage comes from the labor and machinery used to tag, sort and move the items. But it can’t be disputed that the weight of the items adds to the overall load which then impacts fuel costs. (Handling costs remain constant for long flights because even connecting flights do not involve additional luggage contact by personnel).
Still, while there may be some cost consideration in the distance a bag travels, the primary costs are incurred upfront and there is likely no efficient manner to charge for luggage by the mile. Unlike UPS packages, most bags going by airline are accompanied by persons who need to clear security and get onto the plane faster than it would take a counter agent to compute the cost per mile for every bag checked. Although others will argue such transactions can be processed online prior to airport departure, inevitably someone will change the amount of luggage, or their flight details, at the airport, and gum up the works.
Just as Federal Express saved millions of dollars and improved efficiency by making drivers plot routes with only right turns (even though they sometimes drove more miles), airlines will improve effiencies and make money by sticking with a simple, cost effective luggage fee policy that reduces processing time, confusion and personnel labor.
Now, had it been a longer trip we might have considered Virgin. Somehow the $20 doesn’t seem as bad when they have to fly a bag across the country. And it brings up an interesting point…except for the U.S. post office with flat rate envelopes, nobody charges the same amount to ship things different distances.
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The same concept could been used by TRAVEL AGENTS. Why dont you have a FLAT FEE ONLY for every ticket you issue, regardless of the airfare. Or for every cruise you book.
Dont some charge by the hour and/or the percentage of the trip cost?
Laura, I probably used the term incorrectly. I believe this was just my reaction to this article was it is just plain foolish. Some of her other articles just give me the impression she tends to more liberal than conservative. By the way having a doctoral degree does not impress me. In some cases they are worthless. They can be purchased sometimes .Also having one does not constitute common sense or good judgement. There are people who recieve them because of race or ethnic background.
@ Barbara-
“doctorates…can be purchased..” Really? So can “Spell Check” I hear, which, along with “Grammar Check” you should definitely invest in before you criticize others.
Did you ‘recieve’ (sic) your highly inflated opinion of the value of your thoughts through some less rigorous manner other than schooling? Because your poor grammar and spelling sure do prove it!
I myself am not immune to typos and other mistakes made in haste, even though I went to Johns Hopkins for English (got accepted there at age 12 – so, not a fake doctorate)., but I usually do not judge unless so provoked by someone like you.
Ooohh….Cat fight!!
It makes no sense to ascribe any normal rational logic to airline pricing. The well-known anomalies in the pricing of “base” fares are the result of “dynamic yield management” systems that continually adjust prices based on predicted demand to maximize revenue. And the new fees are nothing more than desperate attempts to generate “ancillary revenue,” using a less sophisticated form of “dynamic yield management.”
They arbitrarily announce a fee and listen to the inevitable complaints. If the complaints are less than some arbitrary threshold, or if they die down as passengers acclimate to them, they raise the fee (as with baggage). They listen again to the complaints. If the complaining is too loud or doesn’t die down quickly enough, they back off for a while. Then they try again with a new fee (e.g., the holiday fee). The key apparently is to add or raise fees gradually enough so that it doesn’t provoke too loud or long-lived an outcry, and only after previous fees have become firmly established as the “new normal.” It’s rather like the proverbial boiling of a frog by raising the temperature of the pot slowly enough so that the frog isn’t alarmed enough to jump out.
I’m sure they have highly-paid consultants working behind the scenes, crunching the numbers and working out fee scenarios to optimize revenue. If those consultants decide to expand the current flat fee for checked bags into something like base fee plus a percentage of the ticket price, they’ll do it in the appropriate fashion to let the outrage peak and burn itself out before the fee becomes standard industry practice that we reluctantly come to accept.
Airline executives know full well that they will get away with whatever they want. They know that no matter how shabbily they treat their paying customers, no matter how upset we get with being constantly hit up with fees, no matter how unreliable and unpleasant their service is, we’ll be back buying more of what they’re selling. Most of us just don’t have the time to drive across the country or to row a dinghy across the ocean.
Good points Hapgood. But you would think with all these highly paid consultants and expensive systems – plus a largely captive audience – that they would figure out a way to actually make money?
I think we need to ignore “barbara”. Clearly a troll…
Alot of passengers expect CHEAP FARES, so much so that they may not travel if they feel the fare is too high. How many times do those “airline executives” try to RAISE TICKET PRICES and one or several other airlines dont follow suit. They’re rescended, that’s what. And, let’s NOT forget “oil futures” is nearing 80 dollars, which happens to be one of the airline’s BIGGEST expenses. HENCE, THE FEES.
Laura,I simply feel her idea has no merits.There are more important issues to deal with than this frivilous idea. Modesty is just not your strong point.
@Barbara
I’m going to amend my comments to say you’re probably a very nice lady and we’d probably agree on a lot issues.
Now that my hurt at havng my many years of education impugned has lessened, I feel somewhat bad about my earlier response. I did the opposite of what I would have counseled you to do – which is to offer constructive criticism. If you’d like to read about a certain topic or issue, please send it in.
This site has a large variety of writers with vast expertise. And we try to offer something for everyone, so even if Janice’s columns don’t appeal to you, its still likely that someone else finds them helpful, as evidenced by the discussion points offered.
The columns on this site have nothing to do with politics, unless it’s the associated Consumer Traveler Alliance trying to lobbying Congress to make travel better for everyone.
I believe that Janice is misinterpreting the basis for airfares. Nobody would have written this article back in the “old days” when the first two pieces were free, no matter how far you flew.
Our system of airfares is market based, not cost based. for example, on a random weekday 1 week roundtrip JFK-LAX is over $100 less than a trip JFK-CVG on the same dates. That is 2500 miles vs 600 miles!
The reason is that several airlines serve the former route, the latter route is basically served by only one.
Airlines didn’t coincidentally get the idea to charge for luggage at the same time. One or two tried it, the sky didn’t fall, and others decided to ring the cash register.
I enjoy these columns; Some more than others, of course, and the comments that follow….usually. I think Barbara is having a very bad day, and I hope this isn’t her usual attitude.
Allison pray tell what a troll is. Laura I do not see your name listed anywhere as a spoksman for this blog.
But it would be nice to have a discount luggage rate for short nonstop flights. (Who am I kidding? The more likely scenario is the airlines starting to charge more for longer or connecting flights?)
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It would be nicer if the airlines quit nickel and diming their passenger (if it were only a nickel or a dime!).
I remember when the airlines use to charge more for nonstop flights than for an itinerary that required a connection. Redeyes use to be less in cost, too.
A report yesterday said that people are saying they are not traveling by air this Thanksgiving due to the extra fees. They are thumbing their noses at the airlines and I hope it continues!
Robb you are so right on target.
Bodega: “A report yesterday said that people are saying they are not traveling by air this Thanksgiving due to the extra fees. They are thumbing their noses at the airlines and I hope it continues!”
“Just say no” is about the only thing we can do about the degradation of the air travel “experience.” What I’d like to see happen is for the “elite business travelers” to use teleconferencing instead of travel, and for leisure travelers to try exploring the treasures they’ve overlooked in their own home towns back in the days when air travel was convenient and fun. Do this for a while. Just long enough to finally push the airlines over the cliff, toward which they’ve been heading for some time.
The current crop of CEOs will cash in their bankruptcy-proof pension entitlements and then go on to find new industries to ruin, undoubtedly for higher pay than they’re now “earning.” And new CEOs who are hopefully smarter and more competent will rebuild a new and better airline industry from the ruins.
The only people who will really suffer are the employees of the current airlines, who didn’t cause the problems but will have to bear the full costs of the transition. But that’s the way things always work in deregulated free-market capitalism. And if they survive the lengthy layoff, they may end up with better and more satisfying jobs in a new airline industry that values employees (and customers) as essential assets rather than as liabilities “outside the value stream,” to be cut at every opportunity.
I don’t know anything else we can do about airlines that will only get worse.
@ Laura
You may have the education, but I’m trying to figure out how you came to the conclusion that “connecting flights do not involve additional luggage contact by personnel.” How will the bags get unloaded from the first aircraft, get sorted, get loaded onto carts, get transported to the other aircraft and then get loaded onto that second aircraft, all without any contact by personnel?
@Barbara-
I’m not a spokesperson for this site, but I write for it at times. I am not speaking for everyone, but if you’d like to suggest an article, I’ll work on it.
@Scott
You are right in that, in order to be brief, I wasn’t clear. Most “connecting’ flights do not involve a change in planes (at least when you are using the same carrier and not some piecemeal itinerary) – very few flights these days (at least in my experience) involve 2 different planes. Even when a change in planes is required, the bags are often ‘checked through’ to your destination, meaning that in some cases, they don’t fly on the same plane you do, but on a direct flight.
The last time I booked a flight with segments where a change in planes was supposedly required (because it was unavoidable to make my destination in time), we got to airport prepared for some marathon and then were told we were not changing planes. (BTW – had I known this, I would have packed differently – more checked, less carry-on). I never figured out if there was a last minute accomodation by the airline, or if the initial information had been wrong.
You are right in that, in order to be brief, I wasn’t clear. Most “connecting’ flights do not involve a change in planes (at least when you are using the same carrier and not some piecemeal itinerary) – very few flights these days (at least in my experience) involve 2 different planes. Even when a change in planes is required, the bags are often ‘checked through’ to your destination, meaning that in some cases, they don’t fly on the same plane you do, but on a direct flight.
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I must correct this misinformation and I have to admit to be confused with what you wrote.
Connecting flights usually involve different planes. Occassionally, you can find an itinerary that will stop and show a change of plane to the same plane you flew out on. This is sometimes found international to domestic flights with US carriers. It is best when taking connecting flights to use the same carrier, but that isn’t always possible or necessary but you would want to be sure of interline agreements. You can not connect from one carrier to some others, such as UA to WN. These would be issued as two separate itineraries and if you check luggage, you have to pickup your bags with United and then checkin with WN. WN does not interline with any carrier.
A direct flight in not a nonstop flight. A direct flight is one that stops in route with no change of plane. Southwest is one carrier to utilize this in many of their routings.
A big misunderstanding for passengers is that their luggage doesn’t always travel on the same fight as they do. And of course we all know that luggage sometimes takes the ’scenic’ route with a stop over for a day or week or more in a destination not on your itineary :)
Hapgood&Bodega,
Since the massive drop in air travel the airlines have dropped capacity and raaised fees. Therefore further dropping of trravel will merely force them to find even more fees!
@Barbara: FYI, in the context of the internet and more specifically blogging, a “troll” is someone who posts provocative comments on blogs trying to get a rise and response out of others. The term derives from the verb “troll” (as in, a boat trolling from one place to another) more than from the noun “troll” (a mythical creature reputed to live under bridges).
@Laura: Bodega is correct about the differences between “nonstop”, “direct”, and “connecting” flights. The legacy carriers route 90% or so of their flights through their hubs, and many of the planes on those flights go from Point A to the hub and back to Point A. Hub-spoke flights are almost always connecting, not direct, flights.
Your experience may be different if you’re traveling from one of, day, the top 20 or so cities in the country to another. There are quite a few nonstop flights from New York to Los Angeles or San Francisco, for instance; there are quite a few (in season) from northeast cities to Florida. But if you’re going from a city like, say, Buffalo or Austin or Baton Rouge or Cheyenne to, well, anywhere, a legacy carrier will mean a connecting flight and a change of planes. Flights from second-tier and lower cities are almost 100% routed to hubs.
Southwest uses a modified hub/point-to-point system, where almost every SWA city serves as a micro-hub, many serve as mini-hubs, and a few serve almost as regular hubs. From New Orleans, for instance, Southwest might offer non-stops to Houston, Dallas, Phoenix, Chicago, Nashville, and DC. But those planes would then continue on, respectively, to say Los Angeles, San Francisco, Las Vegas, Albany, Pittsburgh, and Manchester. So a New Orleans passenger could get a direct (but not non-stop) flight to Pittsburgh with no change of plane. Carrying through, that passenger might then disembark in Pittsburgh, change planes, and continue on to Hartford; his flight would then be a connecting one. Variations of this model are used by several of the lower-cost carriers, although some use the hub-spoke system.
The interesting thing nobody has mentioned is how many more travelers (myself included) cram it all into one bag and check it at the gate? This PROVES it’s all about the money not any increase in jet fuel or personnel etc. The Jetbridge on EVERY trip I make (I fly out three times a month on average) is FULL of passengers waiting for their bags. The thing is that it is STILL faster than checking bags, more convieniant for them and us, and still cost them the same for fuel. I have seen some pretty big bags, as well as more two over-sized bags get checked at the gate all the time.
The truth is simple. Jet fuel went up, economy went down, travel suffered terribly, less flights (bankrupt airlines, less routes, etc) created less supply for demand and this became a new revenue stream. Plain and simple. Look at the other things that are gone. 1) Meals on 2 hour flight. 2) Snacks on less than 2 hour flights. 3) Drinks on less than 1 hour flights (sometimes). 4) Pillow and blanket etc. Like I said, pretty simple, sales went down, so a new group of Revenue Streams came into play. If it was entirely Jet fuel based than flights that were shorter would always cost less than longer ones, and frequent fliers would not get bag fees waived, etc. It is ALL about supply and demand. I like the comment about one or two tried and the sky didn’t fall so the others followed suit. Imagine if the first one who tried went immediately bankrupt over it, the others would have NEVER followed suit.
The unfair part is how they get you at the airport for fees. ESPECIALLY infrequent travelers.
LONG (but good) STORY HERE!!!
I was at Ohare airport at a Delta Counter and a Family of 5 (Two parents and three kids- all fare paying age) and they were in shock and awe. They were being told there bag fees would be an additional $250 EACH WAY ($500 BUCKS ROUNDTRIP!!) They each had two bags (plus a couple, small carryon- purse/bag for kids types). The mom started crying, the dad was ANGRY, the counter people oscillated between indifferent to sort of amused. The father started shuffling through his wallet, obviously looking for what card could possibly have that much open. I stepped forward and said to him, well I wouldn’t check a bag one. Just take them all plain side, and check them at the gate. He looked suprised and turned to ask the counter person if he could and before she could answer, i stopped him and said ” Don’t ask them, what do you think they will say?” I told him that I travel all the time and the bags I see get checked plane side are no larger than his. The counter person and her boss stepped out and started to become confrontational with me, and actually tried to move one the families bags onto the scale. Finally, the father became very frustrated again, and pulled his bag back and asked, “can i check these bags plane side.” The manager tried to firmly sidestep the question with “well we don’t recommend or that is not policy blah blah.” The father looked back at me and I blatantly said “He is not answering you because YES, you can check them plane side.” The manager called over a security person to address me, who simply imposed himself between me and the family and i moved back to my spot behind the red line. The mother tried to argue and said “Our total flights, round-trip were less than $1,000 but you are telling us, just now, that our flight will be double than due to two bags of normal size per person.” Cold and calmly, the manager said, “well mam’ Yes. you have to understand that the airlines have certain financial..” and she interupted them there and turned to her husband, “No way we’re paying double, let’s listen to this guy (me) and head to the gate.” So they turned around and left. I got the dirtiest stares while checking in (usually use kiosks but mine wouldnt work for some reason) as I was leaving the manager stated that I really should not but into other peoples business. I replied that the airlines and himself and his staff should take such delight in screwing over their customers and walked away.
Ironically, the family was travelling to the same destination as I, Chicago to New York. So i saw them at check in. We chatted and laughed a bit, they suggested some great restaraunts while in town (They were originally from the same town of Binghamton that I was visiting. They were heading into the jetbridge and even the ticket taker was peturbed by their number of bags stating “that their IS a check in service before security. The mother replied bit for 1,000 bucks their ain’t. Then the ticket taker complained that the children had too many bags (these people just don’t give up). So i picked up 3 bags and grabbed tags and headed on the plane with them.
Shared the story because it is a good one and it just exemplifies the GREED of the industry and too bad Southwest doesn’t fly more places because i would use them more.