Why are there no flat beds on most US-based airlines for international flights?

Arizona Road Warrior · 10-03-2006, 05:48 PM

Recently, I read that American Airlines will be installing German-built Recaro lie-flat seats in its Boeing 767 and 777 business class cabins this year. I have noticed that most US Airlines do not have lie-flat seats or flat bed seats for their international flights or just getting them; whereas, it seems like most international based airlines have lie-flat seats or flat bed seats for their international flights for some time now. Can any explain the reason why the US based airlines are so late in offering lie-flat seats or flat bed seats on their international flights?

Ned · 10-03-2006, 08:26 PM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Arizona Road Warrior @ Oct 3 2006, 06:48 PM) [snapback]38618[/snapback]</div>

Quote:

Recently, I read that American Airlines will be installing German-built Recaro lie-flat seats in its Boeing 767 and 777 business class cabins this year. I have noticed that most US Airlines do not have lie-flat seats or flat bed seats for their international flights or just getting them; whereas, it seems like most international based airlines have lie-flat seats or flat bed seats for their international flights for some time now. Can any explain the reason why the US based airlines are so late in offering lie-flat seats or flat bed seats on their international flights?
[/b]

When you're intent on squeezing in as many seats as the US based airlines are there's no room for lie flat seats even in first class. Maybe they're finally learning that there's a big market for luxury these days.

jfrenaye · 10-03-2006, 08:27 PM

Because international carriers use separate equipment for trans Atlantic. Domestic carriers use the equipment where it is needed. So putting a lay flat seat for a 2 hour flight would be a waste.

You do not see those on any European domestic flights

Ned · 10-03-2006, 09:27 PM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jfrenaye @ Oct 3 2006, 09:27 PM) [snapback]38630[/snapback]</div>

Quote:

Because international carriers use separate equipment for trans Atlantic. Domestic carriers use the equipment where it is needed. So putting a lay flat seat for a 2 hour flight would be a waste.

You do not see those on any European domestic flights
[/b]

I didn't realize that. US Air has historically (last 10 years anyway) only used its fleet of A330-300 planes for its European flights. It never uses these planes for its Caribbean or transcontinental flights. Having not flown any other US airline to Europe in the last 15 or so years (Have flown KLM, Air France, and British Air to Europe during that time.) I figured, apparently wrong, they all did the same.

In Envoy class in the A330, US Air has had their seats go flat or darn close to it for a long time.

**BPoland** · 10-04-2006, 05:21 AM

I think that it is also a cost issue. AA started with their 767-300 fleet which they use on a lot of European flights, as well as the longer mainland/Hawaii flights. The seats on those planes were older and really needed replacement :P The 777 are newer, and when AA ordered them, they did not order them with lie-flat seats. Why?? I don't know, but I will speculate that someone was trying to save $$. Another wonderful airline decision

Unfortunately, I think that AA realized that they were losing market share to the foreign carriers, and they had to do something. So now, they are spending $$$ to upgrade their business class seats (and you wonder why US carriers are losing money??). My question is why aren't Delta, Continental, and the others doing the same? I think this will give AA a big advantage (short term, till the others catch up!) over those carriers. If I had a choice between carriers, and one had lie-flat seats, and the other didn't, which do you think that I would choose?

BTW, it is my understanding that the 767's are pretty much completed. I'll let you know, as I am on one from JFK to Barbados in a few weeks!

mercwyn · 10-04-2006, 12:57 PM

I read that Delta will be adding flat bed seating once they are out of bankruptcy. Of course this will be limited to their 777s and it is assuming that they actually make it out, among other things.

Eileen Sellers · 10-06-2006, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Can any explain the reason why the US based airlines are so late in offering lie-flat seats or flat bed seats on their international flights?[/b]

Money and demand. Most US airlines make most of their money on domestic flights. Most international airlines make most of their money flying internationally. Lufthansa wouldn't make much money if they only flew around Germany. Most US travelers won't pay for first class, they upgrade to first class for free.
So there goes the money. Anyway, United has flat beds on some of their equipment. I think the 777's have them.

mtileston · 10-31-2006, 01:43 PM

Perhaps someone on this forum can help me out. I'm charged with making air arrangements for my father in law for December flying from the LAS or SFO to SIN (Singapore). He will be flying business class.

The idea of business class is to provide him with room during the long flights and where possible to give him a lie-flat bed with privacy, etc.

Can anyone make some recommendations? Singapore Airlines looks like its got what I'm looking for, but with limited time to make the res, I'm trying to shortcut my time searching for on-board amenities.

In advance, thanks!

Matt

PS: Perhaps it would be easier if he just goes to a TA? Thoughts? Again, thanks.

10-03-2006, 08:27 PM	#3
jfrenaye Lanoisseforp Levart Super Duper Über Poster Member since: Feb 2005 Location: Annapolis, MD 21403 Age: 51 Posts: 12,001 Rep Power: 362	Because international carriers use separate equipment for trans Atlantic. Domestic carriers use the equipment where it is needed. So putting a lay flat seat for a 2 hour flight would be a waste. You do not see those on any European domestic flights __________________ Find me on the TRO Forums or MLMs and Travel: A Bad Mix or Single Parent Travel or Eye On Annapolis or ClientBaseHelp.com or even on Twitter!

10-04-2006, 05:21 AM	#5
BPoland Supporting Member Silver Poster Member since: Jun 2005 Location: Boston, MA Age: 54 Posts: 444 Rep Power: 37	I think that it is also a cost issue. AA started with their 767-300 fleet which they use on a lot of European flights, as well as the longer mainland/Hawaii flights. The seats on those planes were older and really needed replacement :P The 777 are newer, and when AA ordered them, they did not order them with lie-flat seats. Why?? I don't know, but I will speculate that someone was trying to save $$. Another wonderful airline decision Unfortunately, I think that AA realized that they were losing market share to the foreign carriers, and they had to do something. So now, they are spending $$$ to upgrade their business class seats (and you wonder why US carriers are losing money??). My question is why aren't Delta, Continental, and the others doing the same? I think this will give AA a big advantage (short term, till the others catch up!) over those carriers. If I had a choice between carriers, and one had lie-flat seats, and the other didn't, which do you think that I would choose? BTW, it is my understanding that the 767's are pretty much completed. I'll let you know, as I am on one from JFK to Barbados in a few weeks! __________________ Bob Poland, CTA Don't Go There Travel www.dontgotheretravel.com

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10-03-2006, 05:48 PM	#1
Arizona Road Warrior Senior Member Platinum Poster Member since: Aug 2005 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 1,176 Rep Power: 95	Recently, I read that American Airlines will be installing German-built Recaro lie-flat seats in its Boeing 767 and 777 business class cabins this year. I have noticed that most US Airlines do not have lie-flat seats or flat bed seats for their international flights or just getting them; whereas, it seems like most international based airlines have lie-flat seats or flat bed seats for their international flights for some time now. Can any explain the reason why the US based airlines are so late in offering lie-flat seats or flat bed seats on their international flights?

10-04-2006, 12:57 PM	#6
mercwyn Travel Professional Diamond Poster Member since: Jun 2005 Posts: 2,491 Rep Power: 171	I read that Delta will be adding flat bed seating once they are out of bankruptcy. Of course this will be limited to their 777s and it is assuming that they actually make it out, among other things.

10-31-2006, 01:43 PM	#8
mtileston Trusted Member Member since: Sep 2005 Location: Manomet, MA (near Cape Cod) Age: 56 Posts: 13 Rep Power: 32	Perhaps someone on this forum can help me out. I'm charged with making air arrangements for my father in law for December flying from the LAS or SFO to SIN (Singapore). He will be flying business class. The idea of business class is to provide him with room during the long flights and where possible to give him a lie-flat bed with privacy, etc. Can anyone make some recommendations? Singapore Airlines looks like its got what I'm looking for, but with limited time to make the res, I'm trying to shortcut my time searching for on-board amenities. In advance, thanks! Matt PS: Perhaps it would be easier if he just goes to a TA? Thoughts? Again, thanks.