Go Back   ConsumerTraveler.com Forums > Hot tips > Enroute > By sea
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

By sea The home port for a floating vacation.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-25-2011, 10:29 AM   #11
Loonbeam
Senior Member
Diamond Poster
 
Loonbeam's Avatar
 
Member since: Dec 2005
Location: Marlton, NJ
Posts: 2,931
Rep Power: 249 Loonbeam has just been invited to the lav with Ralph FiennesLoonbeam has just been invited to the lav with Ralph FiennesLoonbeam has just been invited to the lav with Ralph FiennesLoonbeam has just been invited to the lav with Ralph FiennesLoonbeam has just been invited to the lav with Ralph FiennesLoonbeam has just been invited to the lav with Ralph FiennesLoonbeam has just been invited to the lav with Ralph FiennesLoonbeam has just been invited to the lav with Ralph FiennesLoonbeam has just been invited to the lav with Ralph FiennesLoonbeam has just been invited to the lav with Ralph FiennesLoonbeam has just been invited to the lav with Ralph Fiennes
Default

MSNBC as part of one of its innumerable Predator related shows had one guy interviewed who basically described a Disney Cruise as an all-you can-ogle buffet. Creepy, but effectively accurate. While I am sure there are not a huge amount of convicted offenders on cruise ships (primarily due to movement restrictions), I am also sure that there are more than a few out there.

When cops are convicted of statutory rape (NYC last week), I'm not holding out much hope for the integrity of a ship crewmember making $2.25 per hour.

The overall point is that Cruise ships are effectively mini-cities, with all the same issues that cities face on land. Which means the same common sense rules apply. If your kid wants to go out and read at night, perhaps an upper deserted deck was not the best choice. Instead, why not go to the atrium or whatever where there is a manned passenger services deck. Or sit near the 24 hour buffet if they have one..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eileen Sellers
I understand everyone's opinion that parental control seems to be lacking, however, your opinion that cruise lines aren't safe for passengers to be out after dark is just plain crazy.
There's a difference between passengers walking the decks two together and one lone 14 year old girl in a deserted area late at night. I wouldn't let one walk home here like that at that time and we live in the definition of a low crime area..
Loonbeam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2011, 07:30 PM   #12
Eileen Sellers
Travel Professional
Platinum Poster
No Avatar
 
Member since: Jun 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,499
Rep Power: 76 Eileen Sellers has just been invited to the lav with Ralph FiennesEileen Sellers has just been invited to the lav with Ralph FiennesEileen Sellers has just been invited to the lav with Ralph FiennesEileen Sellers has just been invited to the lav with Ralph FiennesEileen Sellers has just been invited to the lav with Ralph FiennesEileen Sellers has just been invited to the lav with Ralph FiennesEileen Sellers has just been invited to the lav with Ralph FiennesEileen Sellers has just been invited to the lav with Ralph FiennesEileen Sellers has just been invited to the lav with Ralph FiennesEileen Sellers has just been invited to the lav with Ralph FiennesEileen Sellers has just been invited to the lav with Ralph Fiennes
Default

Quote:
The overall point is that Cruise ships are effectively mini-cities, with all the same issues that cities face on land
That just isn't true. Ships don't face the same issues as cities on land, and less yet than resort hotels which have fixed locations. A cruise ship has 100% turnover of population each week, which cleans out the neighborhood so to speak.

But what I'm amazed at is the overriding sense that cruises have a danger associated with them, that doesn't come from the environment, but one that comes from crew. We don't usually associate danger with hotel personnel and staff, so what is different with ships? I also sense that the idea of being out on deck at night is somehow a danger zone, and I don't agree.

Quote:
If Mrs. N. wants to take a walk on deck at midnight, she's not going on deck alone
This is amazing to me. I'm not kidding with you in any way, I had no idea that people had this kind of concern on a cruise. Although, it makes sense in the general sense of safety concern. I wouldn't hesitate go on deck at midnight alone, maybe it comes from being in the industry and my sense safety isn't threatened on this issue, and because I've done it so many times. I hate to think that people are not enjoying themselves to the fullest because of a fear,which might be an irrational fear, but a sensible concern. I have to think on it and as an idustry we will have to address the concern and find ways for people to not be afraid of being on deck at night, accompanied or single.




(I'll start a different thread to talk about "nights on deck" - so this thread doesn't get off track.)
Eileen Sellers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2011, 08:34 PM   #13
Loonbeam
Senior Member
Diamond Poster
 
Loonbeam's Avatar
 
Member since: Dec 2005
Location: Marlton, NJ
Posts: 2,931
Rep Power: 249 Loonbeam has just been invited to the lav with Ralph FiennesLoonbeam has just been invited to the lav with Ralph FiennesLoonbeam has just been invited to the lav with Ralph FiennesLoonbeam has just been invited to the lav with Ralph FiennesLoonbeam has just been invited to the lav with Ralph FiennesLoonbeam has just been invited to the lav with Ralph FiennesLoonbeam has just been invited to the lav with Ralph FiennesLoonbeam has just been invited to the lav with Ralph FiennesLoonbeam has just been invited to the lav with Ralph FiennesLoonbeam has just been invited to the lav with Ralph FiennesLoonbeam has just been invited to the lav with Ralph Fiennes
Default

See that's a fundamentally flawed statement. Socially, ships face exactly the same issues. Drug smuggling, robberies, sexual assaults all occur on ship. Having a complete turnover is likely a net positive contributor to some crimes as if you make it to the end of the week without getting caught, you are off the boat. Add to the fact that ships have no police force of the same level as a city and no real means to punish violators?

Now I will say the average age and income demo of cruisers is a mitigating factor, but not to a degree where it eliminates the problems.

From a Northeastern Study - important to note this is based on REPORTED numbers as opposed to FBI numbers for the actual..

Rate of Sexual Assaults per 100,000 passengers per year (1993-2005) - 17.2
Rate of Sexual Assaults - all US - per 100,000 people (1993-2005)
33

So yes, cruise ships are safer than perhaps the center of a large city like Camden NJ. But that doesn't translate to 'safe' just safer. You still need to be aware of your surroundings and not expose yourself to needless risk.

You know what, lets take crime out of the discussion. She was alone on an upper deck in relative darkness. What if she simply slipped and fell and hit her head while chasing a journal page that blew away in the sea air. Equally as tragic and equally as preventable. It's the same reason I cringe when I see people jogging alone along a wooded back street where I drive sometimes at 9 PM. Whatever the adverse incident is, there's no reason to increase the risk whether its being attacked, or bitten by a snake.

The main premise still stands. It was still irresponsible for the parents to allow their teen to be in an isolated area regardless of it being a cruise ship, it would have been just as bad at a resort, a hotel, or on a train...






Quote:
Originally Posted by Eileen Sellers View Post
That just isn't true. Ships don't face the same issues as cities on land,
Loonbeam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2011, 08:49 PM   #14
cooldad
Travel Professional
 
cooldad's Avatar
 
Member since: Nov 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 60
Rep Power: 15 cooldad is boarding the planecooldad is boarding the plane
Default

Quote:
Add to the fact that ships have no police force of the same level as a city and no real means to punish violators?
You would be surprised at this. The "police force" is usually comprised of retired law enforcement and they are very good at what they do--when they know about it or it is reported. Every passenger ship also has a brig on board as well as a morgue.
cooldad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2011, 07:15 AM   #15
Ned
Kishef macher
Super Duper Über Poster
 
Ned's Avatar
 
Member since: Jul 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA USA
Posts: 16,749
Rep Power: 453 Ned has just been invited to the lav with Ralph FiennesNed has just been invited to the lav with Ralph FiennesNed has just been invited to the lav with Ralph FiennesNed has just been invited to the lav with Ralph FiennesNed has just been invited to the lav with Ralph FiennesNed has just been invited to the lav with Ralph FiennesNed has just been invited to the lav with Ralph FiennesNed has just been invited to the lav with Ralph FiennesNed has just been invited to the lav with Ralph FiennesNed has just been invited to the lav with Ralph FiennesNed has just been invited to the lav with Ralph Fiennes
Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eileen Sellers View Post
That just isn't true. Ships don't face the same issues as cities on land, and less yet than resort hotels which have fixed locations. A cruise ship has 100% turnover of population each week, which cleans out the neighborhood so to speak.
Actually Eileen, it is true. Ships face the identical issues cities and towns in the US face. As L. stated, the crime rate isn't what you'll find in the top crime locations in the US, but the crime statistics aboard cruise ships dont' lie. Shipboard crime is significant.

On cruises I've been on, I know of no rapes or sexually based assaults, but I am aware of a significant number of thefts, simple assaults (passenger vs. passenger and case crew vs. passenger), and very serious vandalism (passengers vandalizing the ship caught on tape).

You are correct that the shps have a turnover of population each week, but it's often not a 100% turnover, and according to the destination, it's often far less than a 100% turnover. For example, on a number of Caribbean cruises I've been on, at least 10% of the passengers take back-to-back cruises. In these cases the ship alternates between western and eastern Caribbean so they are stopping at different ports. I've been on European cruises where passengers do the same thing.

But that's off the topic a bit. While the "neighborhood" population changes from cruise to cruise, the cross-section of passengers, who they generally are, and where they generally come from does not. It's merely a substitution of people with the same basic morals and problems as the last group, with the same potential for problems and crime.

This isn't to say that the vast majority of cruise ship passengers aren't good people. They are, but there are some who are not, and there are crew members that given the chance will commit crimes too.

If anything, the cruise lines will under-report crime. It's to their advantage to do so. Even so, the statistics of shipboard crime are anything but insignificant.

Eileen, I guess you're just extremely naive about this. Please be careful on your future cruises. We don't want you to become a crime victim statistic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eileen Sellers View Post
But what I'm amazed at is the overriding sense that cruises have a danger associated with them, that doesn't come from the environment, but one that comes from crew. We don't usually associate danger with hotel personnel and staff, so what is different with ships? I also sense that the idea of being out on deck at night is somehow a danger zone, and I don't agree.
I don't expect to be a crime statistic on any cruise I take. If I did, I wouldn't cruise, nor would I have a great time if I did cruise. I normally have a fabulous time cruising. Last summer Mrs. N. and I had a marvelous time celebrating her birthday on a European cruise on the Regent Voyager.

Nevertheless, I'd be foolish not to be wary of potential crime and I'd be an idiot not to take precautions. When I cruise, or any time I travel, if I can't afford to lose it, I leave it at home. Before leaving the cabin, as before leaving any hotel room, we'll lock up any valuables we did bring in the room safe. If Mrs. N. feels like strolling the deck at midnight, just like we would do in any city or town, if she wanted to take an evening walk, we'll do it together (In some cities or towns we might skip that evening walk, according to circumstances.) to be safe. In fact, "after hours" Mrs. N. doesn't even go down the hall alone, in a ship, or hotel.

Taking these precautions doesn't hurt our fun on a trip, or a cruise, and it's only commonsense to follow these precautions.

As to associating danger with hotel personnel, of course I do. They are no different than the general population. Do you really think that all the men and women who clean rooms are so trustworthy that you'll leave your valuables lying about instead of putting them in the room safe? Do you really think that every room service guy bringing a bottle of wine at midnight to a hotel guest is so trustworthy that they wouldn't take advantage of a woman in their room, that you wouldn't be careful, and at least not let them close the door behind them while you sign for the bottle?

Crime can happen anywhere, and just because a person has a job, doesn't mean they aren't a criminal, and doesn't mean they won't hurt you, and just because they work in the hospitality industry, doesn't mean they are saints.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eileen Sellers View Post
This is amazing to me. I'm not kidding with you in any way, I had no idea that people had this kind of concern on a cruise. Although, it makes sense in the general sense of safety concern. I wouldn't hesitate go on deck at midnight alone, maybe it comes from being in the industry and my sense safety isn't threatened on this issue, and because I've done it so many times. I hate to think that people are not enjoying themselves to the fullest because of a fear,which might be an irrational fear, but a sensible concern. I have to think on it and as an idustry we will have to address the concern and find ways for people to not be afraid of being on deck at night, accompanied or single.
I don't think you're kidding. I think you are just too trusting and too naive, which to me is surprising considering you are a part of the travel industry and clearly read about travel news. How could you possibly have missed the news about cruise ship assaults, rapes, deaths (some apparently accidental, but some definitely involving foul play), thefts, sexual assaults, and vandalism? There are no irrational fears here. We've seen the stats and they are real. I've seen people and conversed with people who have been victims of serious shipboard crime, including some listed on the International Cruise Victims website. Don't you think their stories are real? Do you think they made-up their stories? Do you really think you have some kind of magic immunity from crime when you cruise?

I think you are reading us mistakingly as having "fear" while cruising. I don't think any of us are "afraid," or we wouldn't be cruising. In fact, if we were afraid of being victims of crime, we probably wouldn't ever travel or leave the house except to go to work.

I think we're just being realistic. We realize that just because we're on a trip, an independent trip, a bus tour, a cruise or any other type of travel, we are not all of a sudden in a crime free bubble. Therefore we use our street smarts, and take prudent precautions to keep ourselves safe.

I think as an industry, the travel industry does have to address safety issues and crime issues. For example, if I were running a hotel, or a cruise line, you'd better believe I'd screen my employees as carefully as possible to minimize potential problems, but I'd be smart enough to know, that it wouldn't eliminate them, so I'd take other precautions too, to try to make my hotel or ships as safe as possible.

That being said, travelers must also take precautions. Believe me, we can still have a great time and see amazing sights even while being wary of potential problems. Being completely care-free isn't an option because it's just not available in the real world, and it isn't necessary anyway, to love traveling, have a great time when traveling, and get a real "charge" from every trip.
__________________
Ned

[Visit my Travel Photography Blog, and
Photography website NSL Photography]
Ned is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2011, 07:15 AM   #16
TPARick
Travel Professional
Platinum Poster
 
TPARick's Avatar
 
Member since: Jun 2005
Location: TPA
Posts: 1,508
Rep Power: 207 TPARick has just been invited to the lav with Ralph FiennesTPARick has just been invited to the lav with Ralph FiennesTPARick has just been invited to the lav with Ralph FiennesTPARick has just been invited to the lav with Ralph FiennesTPARick has just been invited to the lav with Ralph FiennesTPARick has just been invited to the lav with Ralph FiennesTPARick has just been invited to the lav with Ralph FiennesTPARick has just been invited to the lav with Ralph FiennesTPARick has just been invited to the lav with Ralph FiennesTPARick has just been invited to the lav with Ralph FiennesTPARick has just been invited to the lav with Ralph Fiennes
Default Royal Caribbean crewmembers arrested for cocaine possession

A pair of Royal Caribbean International crewmembers were busted for drug possession yesterday in Montego Bay, Jamaica.

The crewmembers were both Jamaican nationals working on the 1,950-passenger Grandeur of the Seas, according to a report that first surfaced in the Jamaican Observer.

The bust was confirmed yesterday by Royal Caribbean, which said that while the Grandeur was docked in Montego Bay on Feb. 24, Jamaican authorities detained a crewmember and found that he was in possession of 18 kilos of cocaine.
Authorities then boarded the ship and found an additional 15 kilos in the cabin of a different crewmember, Royal Caribbean said.

The cruise line said it was cooperating fully with authorities during this investigation and "will continue providing any assistance necessary to prosecute these individuals to the fullest extent of the law."
The Grandeur, sailing a seven-night itinerary from Colon, Panama, had arrived from a call the day before in Cartagena, Colombia.
This is the fourth time since December that Royal Caribbean has been in the news for drug busts on its ships.

In early February, an American passenger on the 5,400-passenger Allure of the Seas was arrested in St. Thomas for allegedly selling drugs to fellow passengers on a the largest ever gay cruise, a full charter of the world's biggest cruise vessel.

There have been two incidents in the past two months of drugs and the 2,252-passenger Enchantment of the Seas.
Customs agents allegedly found heroin and cocaine in the possession of an Enchantment crew member after getting a tip from a ship's security officer in late December, and less than a month later, federal agents have found nearly $100,000 worth of heroin and cocaine in a locker on the ship in an employee area.

Royal Caribbean said in a statement that it "maintains a strict zero tolerance policy regarding illegal drugs on its ships. We take various steps to prevent the transport of illegal narcotics, including working closely with law enforcement in all of our ports of call."

http://travel.usatoday.com/cruises/p...caine/144642/1
__________________

The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. Thomas Jefferson
TPARick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2011, 07:38 AM   #17
TPARick
Travel Professional
Platinum Poster
 
TPARick's Avatar
 
Member since: Jun 2005
Location: TPA
Posts: 1,508
Rep Power: 207 TPARick has just been invited to the lav with Ralph FiennesTPARick has just been invited to the lav with Ralph FiennesTPARick has just been invited to the lav with Ralph FiennesTPARick has just been invited to the lav with Ralph FiennesTPARick has just been invited to the lav with Ralph FiennesTPARick has just been invited to the lav with Ralph FiennesTPARick has just been invited to the lav with Ralph FiennesTPARick has just been invited to the lav with Ralph FiennesTPARick has just been invited to the lav with Ralph FiennesTPARick has just been invited to the lav with Ralph FiennesTPARick has just been invited to the lav with Ralph Fiennes
Default

Quote:
I think we're just being realistic. We realize that just because we're on a trip, an independent trip, a bus tour, a cruise or any other type of travel, we are not all of a sudden in a crime free bubble. Therefore we use our street smarts, and take prudent precautions to keep ourselves safe.
Ned I agree to an extent. You and I grew up in a big city,however some people don't think about crime. They come from small towns,farms,rural areas where crime is next to nothing. I still know people here in parts of Fl who don't lock their front door ever, don't close windows or even lock their cars.
__________________

The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. Thomas Jefferson
TPARick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2011, 07:39 AM   #18
tdew
Senior Member
Über Poster
 
tdew's Avatar
 
Member since: Apr 2005
Location: Bergen Co, NJ
Posts: 4,296
Rep Power: 287 tdew has just been invited to the lav with Ralph Fiennestdew has just been invited to the lav with Ralph Fiennestdew has just been invited to the lav with Ralph Fiennestdew has just been invited to the lav with Ralph Fiennestdew has just been invited to the lav with Ralph Fiennestdew has just been invited to the lav with Ralph Fiennestdew has just been invited to the lav with Ralph Fiennestdew has just been invited to the lav with Ralph Fiennestdew has just been invited to the lav with Ralph Fiennestdew has just been invited to the lav with Ralph Fiennestdew has just been invited to the lav with Ralph Fiennes
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ned View Post
I think we're just being realistic. We realize that just because we're on a trip, an independent trip, a bus tour, a cruise or any other type of travel, we are not all of a sudden in a crime free bubble. Therefore we use our street smarts, and take prudent precautions to keep ourselves safe.
That's the key as far as I'm concerned. There are many things that we do without thinking about it, probably because of where we grew up.
I don't get into an empty subway car or an elevator with just one man in it. Though I often drive by myself at night, when staying in a hotel alone I don't broadcast that fact or what room I'm in.
We live in a fairly safe area but that doesn't mean you stop being cautious.

While I wouldn't be likely to go out on an empty deck at night I have done so in the early morning. I probably wouldn't hesitate to walk back to my cabin on a ship by myself.
tdew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2011, 08:27 AM   #19
deangreenhoe
Travel Professional
Super Über Poster
 
deangreenhoe's Avatar
 
Member since: Jun 2005
Location: Sheridan, MI
Age: 55
Posts: 9,906
Rep Power: 427 deangreenhoe has just been invited to the lav with Ralph Fiennesdeangreenhoe has just been invited to the lav with Ralph Fiennesdeangreenhoe has just been invited to the lav with Ralph Fiennesdeangreenhoe has just been invited to the lav with Ralph Fiennesdeangreenhoe has just been invited to the lav with Ralph Fiennesdeangreenhoe has just been invited to the lav with Ralph Fiennesdeangreenhoe has just been invited to the lav with Ralph Fiennesdeangreenhoe has just been invited to the lav with Ralph Fiennesdeangreenhoe has just been invited to the lav with Ralph Fiennesdeangreenhoe has just been invited to the lav with Ralph Fiennesdeangreenhoe has just been invited to the lav with Ralph Fiennes
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TPARick View Post
I still know people here in parts of Fl who don't lock their front door ever, don't close windows or even lock their cars.
That's the way it is in these parts. A good share of people don't even remove their keys from the car when it's parked at home. Usually the only time the house is locked up is at night when you are in it so family and neighbors can't wander in while you are in your bed clothes.
deangreenhoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2011, 10:20 AM   #20
bodega
Travel Professional
Über Über Poster
No Avatar
 
Member since: Mar 2006
Posts: 6,191
Rep Power: 170 bodega has disabled reputation
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdew View Post
That's the key as far as I'm concerned. There are many things that we do without thinking about it, probably because of where we grew up.
I don't get into an empty subway car or an elevator with just one man in it. Though I often drive by myself at night, when staying in a hotel alone I don't broadcast that fact or what room I'm in.
We live in a fairly safe area but that doesn't mean you stop being cautious.

While I wouldn't be likely to go out on an empty deck at night I have done so in the early morning. I probably wouldn't hesitate to walk back to my cabin on a ship by myself.
Not only where we grew up, but if we are male or female.
bodega is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:12 PM.


© 2010 ConsumerTraveler.com · All rights reserved