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-   -   Can airlines really offer such itineraries? (http://www.consumertraveler.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30869)

I. Mizrahi 11-10-2012 10:53 PM

Can airlines really offer such itineraries?
 
Often times, while searching for an airline ticket from TLV to the U.S., you will get an offer from British Airways built like this: fly from TLV to LHR in the evening, landing at 9 pm or so, then take off to the U.S. the next morning, say at 10 or 11 am.
Such an itinerary means a full night of waiting between flights, most of the times more than 12 hours.
I'm interested to know: can an airline offer such a ticket? And if so, is it obliged to put the passenger in a hotel for the night?

I.M.

deangreenhoe 11-11-2012 05:42 AM

It's not that unusual for an airline to offer schedules with forced overnights, especially between international flights from more far flung origins/destinations. Sometimes that's the only way to schedule yourself from a particular point A to point B.

Of course in the market in question, you have plenty of other schedule options to make choosing such an itinerary unnecessary. The airline is not inclined nor obligated to provide any accommodations at the layover point, any more than you are obligated to choose that particular schedule.

Ned 11-12-2012 06:38 AM

Dean is, of course, absolutely right.

Mrs. N. and I have a flight schedule like that next summer. It's turns out we love it. We're flying into Paris in late morning, and not flying home until the next morning. It's great. We couldn't have arranged it better ourselves. While we're paying for the hotel (at the airport so the following morning is easy) we get an afternoon, dinner, and evening, in Paris. It couldn't have worked out better. We hope to meet friends for dinner. They'll be making the reservation.

Of course, sometimes the itinerary is a pain in the you know what.

Quote:

Originally Posted by I. Mizrahi (Post 200683)
Often times, while searching for an airline ticket from TLV to the U.S., you will get an offer from British Airways built like this: fly from TLV to LHR in the evening, landing at 9 pm or so, then take off to the U.S. the next morning, say at 10 or 11 am.
Such an itinerary means a full night of waiting between flights, most of the times more than 12 hours.
I'm interested to know: can an airline offer such a ticket? And if so, is it obliged to put the passenger in a hotel for the night?

I.M.


Kairho 11-12-2012 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ned (Post 200685)
Dean is, of course, absolutely right.

Mrs. N. and I have a flight schedule like that next summer. It's turns out we love it. We're flying into Paris in late morning, and not flying home until the next morning. It's great. We couldn't have arranged it better ourselves. While we're paying for the hotel (at the airport so the following morning is easy) we get an afternoon, dinner, and evening, in Paris. It couldn't have worked out better. We hope to meet friends for dinner. They'll be making the reservation.

This is the same exact identical invariant equal no different situation we had last year.* A layover 5 minutes short of 24 hours on our way to BOM; we stayed at the Hilton but immediately trained to the City for the afternoon, dinner and evening.

Sometimes things work out quite well.


*Yes, part of my continuing Rant Against Same Exact.

deangreenhoe 11-12-2012 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kairho (Post 200686)
*Yes, part of my continuing Rant Against Same Exact.

So where do you stand on dissimilar inexact situations?

Ned 11-12-2012 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deangreenhoe (Post 200687)
So where do you stand on dissimilar inexact situations?

A big thumbs up on that question!

I. Mizrahi 11-16-2012 06:51 AM

There is a fundamental difference between a 24 hr layover and a 12 hr layover. If you land in LHR at 9pm and take off next morning at 10, you do not have time to visit London. I have to say I am quite surprised to learn that airlines are not obliged to accommodate their passengers in such cases.

I.M.



Quote:

Originally Posted by Ned (Post 200685)
Dean is, of course, absolutely right.

Mrs. N. and I have a flight schedule like that next summer. It's turns out we love it. We're flying into Paris in late morning, and not flying home until the next morning. It's great. We couldn't have arranged it better ourselves. While we're paying for the hotel (at the airport so the following morning is easy) we get an afternoon, dinner, and evening, in Paris. It couldn't have worked out better. We hope to meet friends for dinner. They'll be making the reservation.

Of course, sometimes the itinerary is a pain in the you know what.


Ned 11-17-2012 09:54 PM

Yes, it is different, especially if it's an evening layover. I have had many long daytime layovers for International flights. For example, last year I left Cairo at about 2:30am, for Frankfurt. I wasn't scheduled to fly out of Frankfurt until the afternoon about 12 hours later. I have taken quick jaunts into Frankfurt in similar situations, but I was there during the day, not late evening.

All this being said, I don't think your argument holds water.

This is all about scheduling, and just because the airlines don't have a schedule which gets everyone on their way to every location, from every location within a few hours for every connection, I see no reason they should have to pay for you to wait around.

And when it comes down to it, you chose to fly British Airways to go from Israel to the US. You could have flown on the many non-stop flights from TLV to the US, where there would have been many flight choices with very short connection times. You could fly Delta or El Al into JFK direct, non-stop, for example, and have plenty of choices for a very short layover to many cities. You could fly US Air to PHL direct, non-stop, and then have plenty of choices for a very short layover to many cities. These are just two examples which would have eliminated your layover ills.

The British Air layover was, when as is said and done, your choice to endure, a choice you didn't have to make and suffer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by I. Mizrahi (Post 200689)
There is a fundamental difference between a 24 hr layover and a 12 hr layover. If you land in LHR at 9pm and take off next morning at 10, you do not have time to visit London. I have to say I am quite surprised to learn that airlines are not obliged to accommodate their passengers in such cases.

I.M.


I. Mizrahi 11-19-2012 09:17 PM

Ned,

Just to make things clear: the BA flight I gave as example is not an actual flight I booked. Thankfully, I am informed enough about all other options in order for me not to fall into such a trap. But there are many more potential travelers who are not as knowledgeable about how airlines work, and can easily book such an itinerary on the grounds of price.

And another point: BA operates, as of today, three daily flights from TLV to LHR, including a 7 am flight which makes a wonderful connection to the U.S. Why on earth they offer the evening flight instead only god knows.

I.M.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Ned (Post 200690)

All this being said, I don't think your argument holds water.

This is all about scheduling, and just because the airlines don't have a schedule which gets everyone on their way to every location, from every location within a few hours for every connection, I see no reason they should have to pay for you to wait around.

And when it comes down to it, you chose to fly British Airways to go from Israel to the US. You could have flown on the many non-stop flights from TLV to the US, where there would have been many flight choices with very short connection times. You could fly Delta or El Al into JFK direct, non-stop, for example, and have plenty of choices for a very short layover to many cities. You could fly US Air to PHL direct, non-stop, and then have plenty of choices for a very short layover to many cities. These are just two examples which would have eliminated your layover ills.

The British Air layover was, when as is said and done, your choice to endure, a choice you didn't have to make and suffer.


bodega 11-19-2012 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I. Mizrahi (Post 200691)
Ned,

Just to make things clear: the BA flight I gave as example is not an actual flight I booked. Thankfully, I am informed enough about all other options in order for me not to fall into such a trap. But there are many more potential travelers who are not as knowledgeable about how airlines work, and can easily book such an itinerary on the grounds of price.

And another point: BA operates, as of today, three daily flights from TLV to LHR, including a 7 am flight which makes a wonderful connection to the U.S. Why on earth they offer the evening flight instead only god knows.

I.M.

What you need to check, as I don't have the dates you are looking is if the fare is the same as the earlier flight, connecting through LHR. Sometimes they allow a through fare on a forced overnight instead of charging either a layover fee or a higher fare due to the more than 4 hour connection which is usually the max allowed for a connection on a through fare. So while you see an issue, they could actually be giving a passenger a lower fare for this.


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