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pezmanffx
08-16-2006, 09:05 AM
Just an interesting article I saw on MSNBC. It take me back to the big question of "children in first class"?



http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14136994/

weblet
08-16-2006, 01:28 PM
Kids may be the same as they have ever been (as Emily Posts great-granddaughter may claim), but I think the issue may be that they are being seen in many places now that our parents and grandparents would have never even considered taking their kids. And then we run into the parents refusing to be parents issue because we don't want to damage little egos...

Ned
08-16-2006, 06:11 PM
This is an issue which comes up over and over again, as it's a continuing problem/controversy. I think the problem is mostly parenting. I recently traveled next to a couple with a youngster under a year. The parents were prepared and the infant wasn't a problem at all.

About 6 months ago I was traveling to Houston and there was a 4 year old on board. Again the parents were prepared and willing to ensure respect for the other passengers. It can be done, but it takes good parents to do it, and parents who respect the other passengers.

Then again, on a recent flight to Des Moines, a 4 year old was running up and down the aisle and the mother was doing nothing about it. He was screaming at people in the plane. When he got to me and started screaming I screamed right back. He stopped in his tracks and went back to his mother. People applauded. The mother was steaming. She started to walk up to tell me off for disciplining her kid when another mother 3 rows behind me, knowing what she was about to do, so red in the face, (everyone knew what she was going to do) told her off. She went back to her seat in a huff, saying, "I've never been so insulted in her life." She and the kid were silent for the remaining 40 minutes of the flight.

Take a look at the Tripso Topic, "Why We're Reluctant To Reprimand Other People's Children" (http://www.tripso.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=8188). I think you will find it interesting.

stephen_s
08-16-2006, 08:27 PM
I had the same problem on my flight home to Los Angeles today. I got stuck next to this girl (3 or 4 years old).

She started out by playing with the audio/video controls on my armrest and then, because she was tired, her mother let her lie down with her head on her mom's lap and her feet sticking to my seat. I can understand if it's during cruise, but this was while the plane was taxiing for takeoff. Her mother, sensing my discomfort, folder her daughter's leg so it wouldn't stick in my space.

Finally, after they both fell asleep (mother and daughter), I was able to relax.

After they woke up, the daughter started playing with my armrest again, until she noticed me trying to cover it up. The daughter then started to jump around in her seat, standing on it, looking behind her and in front of her.

The mother tried, but the daughter just wouldn't give up.

I think I'll save up so I can buy a busineess class ticket.

jjjenny
08-17-2006, 09:41 AM
When my children were young and I took them to the mall or a restaurant, if they behaved they were punished. That did not happen very often.
Nowadays, so many parents come in to our office with children. The children run around from desk to desk, picking up our staplers, pens, calendars, whatever. They also grab brochures and throw them on the floor and run into other rooms. The parents don't say one single thing to stop them! Occasionally the parents do come in with well mannered children. Maybe the parents feel guilty about leaving their children at day care, but, they still need to control them.

Kairho
08-17-2006, 09:45 AM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jjjenny @ Aug 17 2006, 10:41 AM) 34708</div>
When my children were young and I took them to the mall or a restaurant, if they behaved they were punished. That did not happen very often.[/b]
Now that's what I call good parenting. :D :lol: :D :lol: :D

(Sometimes I just love typos!)

deangreenhoe
08-17-2006, 10:04 AM
Heh, heh. I enjoyed that also. My father was of the mind we should be punished regardless of our immediate behaviour because he just knew we were at least thinking about doing something naughty. :o

JJjenny, I was always flabbergasted at the way some kids would act in my storefront. I've caught them pushing buttons on my ticket printers, playing with the cash register, breaking (and stealing) travel merchandise and beating on the keyboards at empty work stations. It wasn't because we didn't make special allowances for the kiddies. I even had a kids lounge area with a TV and VCR playing child appropriate videos, a play area with toys and even handed out juice boxes to the little $hits. :lol:

I finally gave up on all that because it generally didn't do a bit of good. The bottom line is that usually bad kids have bad parents - they learn antisocial behaviour in the home. I think many parent's negative response to having their kids corrected by other adults in public bears out that theory.

I never had a problem with correcting an unruly child in my store if the accompanying adult was obviously not going to step up to the plate. Call me a crank, but I would never allow anyone acting uncivilized to disrupt the professional atmosphere in my business. I'd rather lose that customer than alienate those who would be irritated by it as well.

I think the majority of kids are well behaved, no more or less than when I was a child. We just tend to notice the nasty ones more readily.

jjjenny
08-17-2006, 10:10 AM
Whoops! Yeah, right, I punished my kids for behaving! I should have read my post before I added it in.

bodega
08-17-2006, 02:28 PM
When my kids were little they were well behaved. Things do happen and I remember once when my youngest was 4-5 and I was writing a check for my groceries at the market. I heard a kid howling and thinking where the hell is that kid's parents. Yep, it was my kid. He had wondered to the empty checkout behind me and saw a penny between the produce scale and the counter. He had reached his hand down to get the penny and couldn't get his arm out. A clerk moved the scale and while his arm and hand were fine, he got to hear a howl from me when we got in the car!!

One thing my kids were never allowed to do was get up and wonder around when they were finished with their meal at a restaurant. They wanted to do what the other kids were doing, but we made them stay at the table and make us miserable instead of the other patrons :lol:

Kids do learn quickly how to annoy to get out of going somewhere. The very last time I ever took them grocery shopping with me, I looked up from the frozen food freezer to see a Cool Whip container go breezing by me as a frisbee. It worked, they NEVER went with me to the store again. They got in trouble with me for that bad behavior, but I think never having to go shopping again was worth it to them <_<

Something I have noticed over the years is that bad behavior get rewarded. I have been on flights where nosiy kids would get the crayons and paper, but the kids who where quiet, were not acknowledged.

tdew
08-17-2006, 11:58 PM
I agree with all that's been said. We never allowed children or grandchildren to wander about by themselves - whether on a plane, in a restaurant, store or office. We've been shocked at how much freedom the parents here in Scandinavia allow their kids. We've been on trains where little kids were left in the seats while Mom went between the cars to make phone calls. They didn't want to stay where they were, so they'd get up and run up and down the aisle barefoot on a moving train. Even when she was in the seat with them, they were rarely in theirs, while the train rocks and sways. There doesn't seem to be the concern for them getting injured, or the need to know where they are that we have at home. In some ways it's refreshing to know that they don't appear to need to worry about dangers to kids from other people, but it can be annoying to others.

I remember a few years ago there was a woman from one of these countries in NYC. She left her baby in the carriage outside a store while she shopped. She was promptly arrested and there was an outcry from the public, but it's probably something that's still done here in the smaller towns. My mother (she's on the trip with us at 88 years of age) remembers when it was done in NYC in the 40s.

Terry - back in Oslo before the trip to Copenhagen.

Ned
08-18-2006, 05:46 AM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tdew @ Aug 18 2006, 12:58 AM) 34781</div>
...I remember a few years ago there was a woman from one of these countries in NYC...
[/b]
Terry, your post brightened my day, "one of these countries in NYC." :lol: :lol: :lol:

jjjenny
08-18-2006, 09:39 AM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tdew @ Aug 17 2006, 11:58 PM) 34781</div>

I remember a few years ago there was a woman from one of these countries in NYC.

[/b]
Is a passport required? Sorry, but, I'm glad I'm not the only one to make a typo this time around.

tdew
08-19-2006, 02:34 PM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ned @ Aug 18 2006, 06:46 AM) 34785</div>
Terry, your post brightened my day, "one of these countries in NYC." :lol: :lol: :lol:
[/b]
Hey, I'm on timed internet these days and so have to type fast!
Of course I meant to say "from one of these countries WAS in NYC"

Glad I made you chuckle.
Terry - staying put in the Copenhagen Marriott for a week and we really appreciate the extra touches after some of the "interesting" hotels we've been in.