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Ned
05-12-2009, 10:45 PM
A Southwest Airlines plane at Houston's Hobby Airport today caught on fire after landing, forcing passengers to evacuate. It looks as though the brakes locked and a wheel on the right landing gear caught on fire from the skid.

Take a look at the video. You'll see one jacka$$ threw his brief case down the ramp before he went down and it opened up. Then he started to run after some of the papers.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2009/05/12/vo.tx.plane.fire.ktrk

wrp96
05-12-2009, 11:02 PM
Ned, I noticed numerous people went down with their carryons in their hands. But that idiot was especially noteworthy.


It surprised me how long it took before they began evacuating that plane. I counted at least 2 full minutes after the plane came to a complete stop. I wonder how long it took to realize the plane was on fire.


Also, it occurred to me that the flight attendant wearing shorts was probably highly regretting her decision to opt for shorts instead of pants for that flight.

bodega
05-12-2009, 11:44 PM
Did you see that the man who threw his briefcase down first, then slid down, also sat at the end of the slide while he collected his stuff. Idiot!

pezmanffx
05-13-2009, 04:47 AM
Ok, I think is should be a felony to bring a carry-on during an evacuation and should be announced as such during the safety briefing. This is just plain reckless endangerment.

Ned
05-13-2009, 04:58 AM
P-man, they do announce that you should leave everything in the plane, except your coat or jacket if it's cold outside, if you have to evacuate. Some people don't understand how important it is.

Personally, I think they should briefly, no make that "very briefly," explain why you should do that, when they make that announcement. They don't, and I think if people understood why, it would make a difference.

I can tell you that my camera will be around my neck if I ever have to evacuate again. There is no way I'm going to miss the opportunity to get photos of the accident and evacuation if I can do it. Hell, I could get a Pulitzer Prize, well maybe at least a big pat on the back anyway, but I can dream, can't I?

During cold weather, I always keep my coat or jacket in my lap during takeoff and landing, as a precaution. If the plane does go down, I don't want to survive a crash, only to die of exposure, or hypothermia. I also keep my camera in the seat pocket in front of me, so that once we're down I can grab that Pulitzer. ;)

Seriously, I could get some amazing shots that way.

Ok, I think is should be a felony to bring a carry-on during an evacuation and should be announced as such during the safety briefing. This is just plain reckless endangerment.

jfrenaye
05-13-2009, 07:08 AM
I can tell you that my camera will be around my neck if I ever have to evacuate again. There is no way I'm going to miss the opportunity to get photos of the accident and evacuation if I can do it. Hell, I could get a Pulitzer Prize, well maybe at least a big pat on the back anyway, but I can dream, can't I?

Or a payoff to either release the photos to a tabloid or not to release them!

IslandGirl
05-13-2009, 07:14 AM
We had a fire in our old house it was struck by lightening. I grabbed the kids, dogs and was dialing 911 as I was calmly exiting. The last thing on my mind was possessions. Our lives came first. They tell you in the event of an emergency to leave your belongings. I can't believe these people.

As to the flight attendant wearing shorts remember the United crash in Iowa? One of the flight attendant's hose was melted into her legs. Polyester pants would do the same thing.

Ned
05-13-2009, 07:32 AM
You are exactly right about clothing.

In my Tripso column last week, What are the odds of my plane crashing? (http://www.tripso.com/columns/what-are-the-odds-of-my-plane-crashing/) I discussed what clothing to wear when flying.

Wear the right clothing to fly. Wear a good pair of shoes or leather sneakers, never sandals or flip-flops. For women, wearing high heels may make an airborne fashion statement, but you don’t want to be wearing them in case of an emergency exit from a plane. Sandals or “heels” make it hard to move quickly within wreckage.

I wear long pants and long sleeved shirts, made with natural fibers (synthetics or high synthetic content blends can melt on your skin in a fire, causing serious and even fatal wounds) to protect my skin from the possibility of intense heat and fire, but more importantly, to be honest, to help me slide down the wing of an aircraft or emergency slide. Experience has taught me going down that slide can hurt.My column this week, Air crash survival secrets your airline may not tell you (http://www.tripso.com/columns/air-crash-survival-secrets-your-airline-may-not-tell-you/) follows up last weeks article and completes the 2 part series about what passengers can do in the unlikely case of being involved in an airplane accident.

We had a fire in our old house it was struck by lightening. I grabbed the kids, dogs and was dialing 911 as I was calmly exiting. The last thing on my mind was possessions. Our lives came first. They tell you in the event of an emergency to leave your belongings. I can't believe these people.

As to the flight attendant wearing shorts remember the United crash in Iowa? The one flight attendant's hose were melted into her legs? Polyester pants would do the same thing.

katroa
05-13-2009, 08:05 AM
Not only did he throw his briefcase down first, he sat on the end of the slide while he gathered the papers together. I was waiting for another person to come down and kick him out of the way.

pezmanffx
05-13-2009, 08:48 AM
Ned I know they announce it but I think it should be a criminal offense with jail time.

wrp96
05-13-2009, 09:02 AM
P-man, they do announce that you should leave everything in the plane, except your coat or jacket if it's cold outside, if you have to evacuate. Some people don't understand how important it is.

I can tell you that my camera will be around my neck if I ever have to evacuate again.

A jacket or coat in hands would be fine. A camera around someones neck or like in my case my sling bag that is over my neck and shoulders wouldn't bother me either because your hands would still be free AND you wouldn't have a projectile that could go flying or get in the way like idiot on the slide.

wrp96
05-13-2009, 09:02 AM
As to the flight attendant wearing shorts remember the United crash in Iowa? One of the flight attendant's hose was melted into her legs. Polyester pants would do the same thing.

I believe the Southwest uniform pants are cotton, similiar to Dockers.

Fireman
05-13-2009, 09:27 AM
A jacket or coat in hands would be fine. A camera around someones neck or like in my case my sling bag that is over my neck and shoulders wouldn't bother me either because your hands would still be free AND you wouldn't have a projectile that could go flying or get in the way like idiot on the slide.


I think it's better to leave everything. What if the camera strap or bag strap gets hung up on something or someone on the way out?

Loonbeam
05-13-2009, 10:00 AM
This is why my onboard camera fits in my pocket :)

Ned
05-13-2009, 04:52 PM
Take my word for it, the photojournalist in me will be snapping photographs the whole time. My camera will be at my eye most of the time. I would have to make sure I remembered to get out, and would probably be one of the last out.:rolleyes:

I think it's better to leave everything. What if the camera strap or bag strap gets hung up on something or someone on the way out?

RGoltsch
05-13-2009, 11:35 PM
Not only did he throw his briefcase down first, he sat on the end of the slide while he gathered the papers together. I was waiting for another person to come down and kick him out of the way.

Good thing I wasn't behind him and saw him at the bottom of the slide. Bowling for Idiots.......Yes, it's a strike!

katroa
05-14-2009, 08:11 AM
These are the comments online about the incident..haha..
http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2009/05/tires-on-southwest-airlines-je.html#comments

weblet
05-14-2009, 08:38 AM
Umm, yes, hello? How did the dog get onboard? I forgot WN has a no pets policy...

Ned
05-14-2009, 09:22 AM
The comments are interesting, especially the Delta Pilot.

This morning I finally got to see a full length video of what happened with no parts cut out like in the CNN version. Here's the full length URL:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUrw9vpKHIU

I've worked out a time line once the plane comes to a complete stop on the runway.

0:00 Southwest plane stops completely on runway.
+2:03 Airport Security arrives at the plane and sits beside plane
+2:09 Aft port exit escape chute deployed and passengers begin to use the chute
+2:24 First fire truck arrives at scene and begins to put water on fire
+2:29 Forward port exit escape chute deployed and passengers begin to use the chute
+2:58 First rescue personnel out of truck assisting passengers
+3:11 Security finally starts moving passengers away from plane area
+3:24 Fire out
+5:00 Passengers remain within 200 feet of plane

In order to make sense of the timing of what happened it's important to note that the FAA, said the pilot had no prior issues with the landing gear, nor was there a warning of landing gear/brake malfunction prior to landing.

To an extent I agree with the Pilot. Here are my comments. What do you think?


It took 2:09 after the plane landed and stopped on the runway before the aft port exit door was opened and the emergency chute deployed. I find that appalling. No one was injured in the plane during the landing, including the flight crew. I find no reason at all that the door wasn't opened by the flight attendant stationed in the rear galley of the plane during landing within 0:20-0:30 of the plane stopping. In fact it should have been faster than that. In an emergency I was on, quite some time ago, our exit doors were opened and the emergency chutes deployed within 0:15 after the plane came to a stop. Taking more than 2 minutes is completely inexcusable.
It was another 0:20 seconds after that, a full 2:29 after the plane was stopped until the forward port door was opened and the emergency chute deployed. What's with that?!?
Airport Security had an SUV at the plane within about 2 minutes after it stopped. Considering they didn't know anything was wrong until just after the plane touched down, I don't see a big problem with that, although I would have thought they would have been there faster.
I don't know where the Hobby firehouse is located at the airport, but it seemed a touch long at 2:24 before the first fire truck arrived at the scene. I witnessed an accident this past November at PHL, where the front landing gear collapsed on touchdown for a US Air commuter plane. The fire truck reached the plane about 1:10 after the plane hit the ground. I later found out there was no warning about the failure so the fire truck got there very fast. (Moreover the passengers began to deplane within 15 seconds after the plane came to a stop on the runway.)
It took just shy of 3 minutes before the first emergency personnel helped any passengers. That is appalling!!!!!!!
It was 3:11 before airport security finally got out of their SUV and began to lead the passengers away from the plane in case the fire got out of control and the plane exploded sending potentially fatal debris all over. Now I know just by looking at the fire, you could tell that was not going to happen, but why did security (a man and a women) just sit in the SUV for a full minute and twiddle their thumbs in the comfort of the SUV instead of helping the passengers? Those security people should be fired in my opinion.
Even when security led the passengers away from the plane to the grass off the runway, they led the passengers less than 200 feet from the plane. If the fire would have spread, at that distance the passengers were still in serious danger.
After a full 5:00 following the plane stopping, no vehicle (bus, for example) was in sight to take the passengers to the terminal. In the PHL accident mentioned above, a bus was on site loading passengers within 4 minutes after the plane came to a halt.

I conclude that both the flight personnel and the ground personnel handled the incident extremely poorly. The flight personnel took far too much time to evacuate the plane. At the very least the flight crew should be severely reprimanded in my opinion. The ground personnel took far too much time to assist the passengers and did a poor job of it once they acted at all. The security personnel in the SUV, who were the first ones to the scene should be fired for their incompetence at best and I won't speculate on what actually motivated them.

vacationagent
05-14-2009, 10:09 AM
I can tell you that my camera will be around my neck if I ever have to evacuate again. There is no way I'm going to miss the opportunity to get photos of the accident and evacuation if I can do it. Hell, I could get a Pulitzer Prize, well maybe at least a big pat on the back anyway, but I can dream, can't I?...

I also keep my camera in the seat pocket in front of me, so that once we're down I can grab that Pulitzer. ;)

Seriously, I could get some amazing shots that way.
Ned - You do not have my permission to take my photograph (nor enter it for consideration for a Pulitzer, nor sell it) while I am evacuating a burning aircraft. Sincerely, VA :)

Annette
05-14-2009, 12:34 PM
To an extent I agree with the Pilot. Here are my comments. What do you think?


I think that without benefit of knowing what was transpiring in communications between the plane and security there's no way of reasonably determining what was too long and what should have been done. Why was the door not opened for 2 minutes? I don't know, perhaps they were told not the open the door until the SUV arrived to observe. Why did they stay in the SUV? I dont know, perhaps they were told to observe and report and not get out until instructed.

I think that without knowing those things you don't know if people were just sitting around doing nothing or were acting precisely as instructed to, and without that it's not fair to judge them.

Ned
05-14-2009, 06:13 PM
I just saw a report on Fox about the Southwest plane and what happened on board and on the ground. An NTSB spokesman was speaking to the press, mostly explaining they have lots of questions, but few answers.

He was asked repeated about the slow evacuation and why the passengers were left out at the runway about 200 feet from the plane for an hour before they were taken to the terminal by bus.

He said he didn't know at this time. He was asked why the flight attendants on the plane at first refused to permit the plane's evacuation when told by passengers the plane was on fire. He was asked why Hobby security didn't marshal the passengers more than 200 feet from the plane while it was on fire and then didn't provide transportation for them for a little over an hour. He said they are investigating those questions and others about the flight crew's performance once they knew there was a fire. He did praise the Hobby fire department for their quick action getting to the plane once the alarm was sounded shortly after the plane first touched down.