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Eileen Sellers
03-17-2008, 11:18 AM
I think Geraldine Ferraro's observations are correct. If Obama was a woman he wouldn't stand a chance against Hillary Clinton. His/her credentials just wouldn't stand up to hers.Obama and Nader are similarly qualified. On the minus side neither one is particularly qualified in international relations. On the plus side, each is passionate for change in America and in Washington. Obama has some legislative experience where Nader has none. However, Nader has plenty of political experience which would compensate. Obama is certainly more eloquent but with some polish Nader could also become eloquent. Obama is definitely prettier and nothing will help Nader on that one.I think that her further observation is also correct. A handsome black man is easier to market than a crusty old white man.

DCTravelAgent
03-17-2008, 03:49 PM
Oh for Goodness sake, if Hillary was not a woman she also would not be where she is!

CraigTPE
03-17-2008, 03:53 PM
A handsome black man is easier to market than a crusty old white man.

Here here! :lol::lol:

DCTravelAgent
03-17-2008, 04:07 PM
My point is that everything about who they are, and what they've experienced in life lead up to them being who/where they are.....

I don't think it was a racist or even sexist comment - I just think it was an unneccesary one. I mean, duh....

mtp51
03-17-2008, 05:12 PM
My point is that everything about who they are, and what they've experienced in life lead up to them being who/where they are.....

I don't think it was a racist or even sexist comment - I just think it was an unneccesary one. I mean, duh....


And a stupid comment. Geraldine needs to climb back under her rock.

Eileen Sellers
03-18-2008, 07:15 AM
My point is that everything about who they are, and what they've experienced in life lead up to them being who/where they are.....




I'm not so sure. Hillary is running for President because she has a lifetime of political experience and service. She is smarter than her husband who was President. Obama is running because he was drafted by the marketing crowd because he looks good and his race trumps his lack of experience.
Otherwise they (the marketing crowd) would have drafted Nader, well, you can see the difference in the looks on that one.

greenearth
03-29-2008, 09:22 PM
Obama is running because he was drafted by the marketing crowd because he looks good and his race trumps his lack of experience.
Please he was drafted because people wanted change and he was an eloquent and passionate speaker. And intelligent-something which is sorely missing in this administration.

pezmanffx
03-30-2008, 09:10 AM
I think Obama is carasmatic and Hillary has the intelligence. Take away his carasima and then compair them side by side.

DCTravelAgent
03-31-2008, 09:13 AM
I think his Harvard Law Review experience would compare well to her Yale experience. I mean really, do you think he's not intelligent?

the dark knight
03-31-2008, 09:33 AM
Okay, I do agree with some of the sentiments here, and many of them were rather funny....

Still, I have to make these points:
No one questions Senator Obama's (large quantitites of) charisma, nor Senator Clinton's intelligence and the "experience" she has versus Senator Obama's.
However, consider this:
1. Senator McCain has at least triple the legislative "experience" of either Democrat, plus (firsthand) military "experience" that neither Democratic candidate has and has been around the block a little longer than them. That is also unquestioned fact.
2. Senator McCain will also have a 3-4 month headstart on putting his face and record out there to the American people and in choosing a good running mate.
3. Having Ralph Nader running again could have a Ross Perot-like effect (or not) on the election, which (I think) will help the Republicans a lot more than it will the Democrats(especially being in catch-up mode).

Bottom line: The people of this country is a lot hungrier for change now than they were back in the early 90s, plus the world, and this country in particular,has changed a lot since then (and in many ways, not for the better). Plus, there are other elections other than the one for President. All elections will have effects on the others. Assuming the Democrats will still control both Houses of Congress much less will win the White House back, even with these candidates, after these elections is not wise at all, especially this year.

With that said:
1. Change is the key of this election.
2. We are about to finish 16 years of having two of the youngest American Presidents in history in office. Not that age should matter, electing either Senator Clinton, or especially Senator McCain, would be returing us back to the former "trend" of having a President in office who is at least 60 years old when he or she is entering office. Senator Obama, however, would be just slightly older than former President Clinton and Vice President Gore (Happy 60th Birthday, by the way) was when they were elected.
Don't you think that these things might matter to some voters, young and old as much as race, gender and alleged "experience"?
3. This election will make the election of 2000 look like a landslide and we already know it will be more historic, no matter what.

No matter who you support...vote in November. In the meantime, just sit back, watch everything objectively and enjoy this historic ride while you can, for this may never, ever, happen like this again in American politics.

DCTravelAgent
03-31-2008, 09:58 AM
Actually, I do question Hillary's experience. She has no more "executive" experience than Obama and frankly, what she has is "life" experience. I mean really, I've slept with a Engineer for 15 years but I don't think that makes me one! No more that the spouse of an Attorney is has law experience because she's been listening to it for however many years. (and likewise, my husband wouldn't be able to even start to put together a cruise booking let alone an FIT!)

Luanne
03-31-2008, 12:02 PM
I was at Penn State Univ yesterday to see Barack!! What an awesome turnout with roughly 22K people. Amazing, just amazing!! And I think he even was able to convert a few Hillary supporters there. What a beautiful day in our great state. :-) I was able to stand on the risers behind the Senator next to Sen Casey (unplanned on the Casey part), but pretty cool. I'm still on cloud 9. Barack didn't let me down one bit. He is so personable and yes, very intelligent and certainly charismatic. I truly hope Pennsylvania pulls him through in this primary. Will be very interesting to watch it all unfold.

the dark knight
03-31-2008, 12:36 PM
Good point, DC, and thank you. I guess I could have said something like that, but I missed that. Okay, everyone, please define "executive" experience that is so vital for the 24/7/365 job of being President of the United States.
What is the proper training for this job? Being a 2, 4 or 6 term US Senator? 10-term Congressperson? First Lady for 8 years and a US Senator for 7-8 years? War veteran and/or 30 year military career? Former governor of a state? Successful billionaire businessperson? An actor? Or just a smart, caring person who has graduated from the" school of hard knocks" with honors?
The point is that, there is no "training" for this job, other than doing it. Honestly, only those (men) who have been the Vice President of the US and later became President themselves for whatever reason (the first President Bush and the late President Gerald Ford to name two) and/or possibly the two or three (men) whose father was President before them (which does include the current President who was also a (so-so) businessman and a former governor...I hope no one forgot that) has indisputeable "experience" for the job of being President. Anyone disagree?
Otherwise, the only things that someone can bring with them to this office or (any national elected office for that matter) is your common sense, values, faith in..whatever or whomever (we will not start on religion versus religion....just go with me on this), life knowledge, the use of the myriad of "advisors" on virtually every subject that is at your disposal and of course, our country's history and the Constitution to guide you.
For the 42 people (yes, men) who have held and are currently holding this office, good and not-so-good, in the last 220-plus years, that has been good enough.
That will also be good enough for the man OR the woman, African-American OR Caucasian-American, PERSON, who will be elected to be the 43rd PERSON to hold this office by the end of this year.

Let's leave this discussion at that, since there is no "right" or "wrong" answer and just enjoy the history that is unfolding right in front of us, that we all will have a piece in creating, right here and right now, shall we?

Ned
03-31-2008, 02:03 PM
Luanne, I'm going to be very strident on this. Please don't take this personally. It is not directed at you or any Obama supporter directly. I can not, nor will not vote for this man in the upcoming primary, or in the general election. I will not vote for McCain either, in the in the general election, so if Obama is the person nominated for president from the Democratic Party, which I believe will happen, I will, for the first time in 40 years not cast my vote for President of the United States. I will participate in the remainder of the election in November.

There are two reasons for this. The first one has to do with foreign policy, and the second has to do with Reverend Wright.

First, I believe, from many statements made by Senator Obama that he will squander his "presidential capital" when dealing with foreign policy. What do I mean? He has stated that he will go anywhere, and speak to anyone, as president, to gain peace in the world. I think this is a monster mistake. I believe that representatives of the United States, under order from the president should go anywhere and speak to anyone to gain peace for all the people of the world, but not the president personally. I think his willingness to do this shows a huge lack of maturity with regard to an understanding of how to conduct foreign policy and relations, as President of the United States. When the President holds direct talks with a foreign power it immediately adds great import and prestige to whomever the President is meeting and negotiating with. There are many countries, such as Iran, with whom we should be holding direct talks, however, the President of the United States should not be a direct part of those talks, so as to reserve his/her presidential capital from the Iranian regime. Holding direct talks on a Presidential level does not withhold the critical prestige and special considerations such talks engender on the world stage, and makes future negotiations all that much harder to successfully occur. Mr. Obama is more than naive concerning foreign relations, and that is a serious and in my opinion, fatal flaw in his candidacy.

Mr. Obama has surrounded himself with anti-Israel foreign policy experts. He protests this isn't true, but it is. People like former Secretary of State Zbigniew Brzezinski are well know supporters of the Arab States at the expense of the only consistent friend of the US in the area, Israel, generally due to the strategic importance of the Arab oil reserves, despite their countys' threat to the national security of the US. In fact, if the US would adopt a reasonable security and alternative fuel policy, we would great diminish the power of these countries over us which is essential. Not only have I not heard one whiff of an sense that Senator Obama plans to put the US on a road of energy self-sufficiency and higher security, but I hear no plans that continue to include Israel as the friend it has been, a friend who has permitted refueling, overflights, supported our troops, and supported our government when it has been a part of the Security Council, etc., unlike most Arab countries.

Second is his relationship and direct and timely repudiation of Reverend Wright. I will tell you that pending retirement or not, if my Rabbi spouted the filth, the hate, the arrogance, the bigotry, the fear mongering spouted by Senator Obama's minister, before the very first sermon that he said those things was complete, I would be calling for his/her immediate and complete dismissal. I would have called for a complete break; no retirement, no pension, no future emeritus ministerial privileges whatsoever. If I would have have been absent from that first sermon, upon hearing about it, I would have then called for the same action by the Board of Trustees. Senator Obama's speech about this situation was wholly unsatisfying to me. On the contrary, I found the speech nothing but a complete fabrication and obfuscation of the real facts of the matter, of Senator Obama's complete and utter lack of action in a timely fashion. It was only after the press made the situation public that Senator Obama did anything about that man's reprehensible sermons. I continue to be appalled by that lack of action and the essential complete repudiation that Reverend Wright has never received from Senator Obama.

I too have had a close personal relationship with my Rabbi. While my current Rabbi didn't marry my wife and I, he did officiate at our baby namings, at B'nai Mitzvahs, at Confirmations, at funerals, and other life cycle ceremonies. He is a close personal friend. My wife and I go out socially with him and his wife. Nevertheless, as an Honorary Vice President for Life of the Board of Trustees of my Congregation, and as just a plain member, I would not hesitate for one second to demand his complete severance from our congregation under similar circumstances compared to those of Reverend Wright in his congregation. The Reverend still enjoys a close relationship with his former ministry, making guest sermons from time to time.

This situation to me shows that Senator Obama has no interest whatsoever in actually being my President, as his continues to show complete arrogance toward anyone not of his background.

So, in one case I find Senator Obama's inexperience and naiveté far in excess of what is necessary to be President of the United States, and in the second, his arrogance and his lack of respect for many Americans, as being unpresidential and totally outrageous.

His speech delivery may be compelling and stirring, but his lack of being made of presidential timber at this time in his life is even more compelling and more telling to me. Furthermore, for this campaign at least, there is nothing he can any longer do to straighten things out. To much time has passed since action should have been accomplished. He his not fit, in my opinion, to be President of the United States.

I was at Penn State Univ yesterday to see Barack!! What an awesome turnout with roughly 22K people. Amazing, just amazing!! And I think he even was able to convert a few Hillary supporters there. What a beautiful day in our great state. :-) I was able to stand on the risers behind the Senator next to Sen Casey (unplanned on the Casey part), but pretty cool. I'm still on cloud 9. Barack didn't let me down one bit. He is so personable and yes, very intelligent and certainly charismatic. I truly hope Pennsylvania pulls him through in this primary. Will be very interesting to watch it all unfold.

Luanne
03-31-2008, 04:50 PM
Ned, you are certainly entitled to your opinion and no offense has been taken. We will agree to disagree if you don't mind :-)

Ned
03-31-2008, 05:29 PM
I don't mind in the least. This nation has fought many wars since the Revolutionary was fought to continue to defend the right, among others, of citizens to disagree with each other and the government as well. Plus, if everyone agreed with everyone else, this would be a very dull world.

Ned, you are certainly entitled to your opinion and no offense has been taken. We will agree to disagree if you don't mind :-)

the dark knight
04-01-2008, 09:30 AM
I think we all can agree that no matter who our next President is, he or she will have a difficult job to do. He or she will have to tackle tasks and challenges from all sides, domestic and foriegn, that no previous President has had to face from Day One of their term.
This man or woman will be the first (newly) elected President of the post/9-11 era. This is living history we will be witnessing. We, as Americans, will need to rally behind this person and give him or her all of our support, prayers, and good wishes we can, regardless of (personal) concerns or dislike of that person.
It is more about the office, and our country as a whole, than the person who will be in that office for the next 4 to 8 years.

Despite our differences, we all need to get our act together and be united as a country quick because the world, friends and adversaries, will be watching us...very closely.

deangreenhoe
04-01-2008, 10:11 AM
Despite our differences, we all need to get our act together and be united as a country quick because the world, friends and adversaries, will be watching us...very closely.

I have an unofficial policy of not discussing politics - but to the above I have to say "amen."

Ned
04-01-2008, 11:10 AM
DK, that was very eloquently said.

Regardless of who is elected, I will give that president my support until the president shows me it's undeserved. It may start as the office, but it may not end there, if this new president shows the same contempt, loathing, and disrespect for the Office of the President, for the Constitution and for the American People that our current president has shown. My support of the current president ended well before he took the oath of office, the first time, with his often callous disregard for the American public when he announced many of his early appointments. From there my support of his presidency went straight downhill.

Some people say I have a very skewed point of view of the political world, but I believe that patriotism in this special country is something not to be worn on one's sleeve, or run up a flag pole. I believe true patriotism is the unswerving, unwavering support of the American people, not any particular administration, not by flying the American flag, but by tangible action supporting our nation. In fact sometimes, stomping on the flag can be more patriotic than flying it. We see such action, such patriotism in the young men and women who volunteer for our armed forces to protect and defend our Constitution and the American people. We see it in the engineers and scientists who toil in the field, in our laboratories and water plants, protecting our health and safety. Administrations, presidents, staff members, secretaries, senators and representatives have to earn my support, my respect and my trust. I believe it is literally Un-American to stand by and not cry out, and not object to a President or an Administration, or a Congress who is hurting our country, who is not doing their job, who is not fighting and working for all Americans.

Surely for whoever the new president is, as you have said, there is a monumental task at hand, more tasks and challenges than have been faced since Franklin Roosevelt faced the Depression and then World War II. We can agree on that.

I also agree that our friends and adversaries, the entire world, will be watching what happens here, in January and the months and years which follow. Our country has been severely weakened by the current administration, both at home and abroad. They have tarnished us with their actions. This new president needs to overcome that. Nevertheless I don't think that the world, either expects us to give the new administration unconditional support, or thinks it's necessary. And in fact, in general, I don't care what the world thinks is necessary or expects.

What is important is that the new president, acts, not talks, acts, within the best principles of our country, and does what is right, not just expedient, to right our ship of state domestically and in the world community, for all of the American citizenry. If the new president does that, no one will have to worry about uniting our citizenry. They will be right behind me, lined up supporting our president and nation.

I think we all can agree that no matter who our next President is, he or she will have a difficult job to do. He or she will have to tackle tasks and challenges from all sides, domestic and foriegn, that no previous President has had to face from Day One of their term.
This man or woman will be the first (newly) elected President of the post/9-11 era. This is living history we will be witnessing. We, as Americans, will need to rally behind this person and give him or her all of our support, prayers, and good wishes we can, regardless of (personal) concerns or dislike of that person.
It is more about the office, and our country as a whole, than the person who will be in that office for the next 4 to 8 years.

Despite our differences, we all need to get our act together and be united as a country quick because the world, friends and adversaries, will be watching us...very closely.