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	<title>Comments on: The worst place on a cruise ship</title>
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	<link>http://www.consumertraveler.com/columns/the-worst-place-on-a-cruise-ship/</link>
	<description>The last honest travel site</description>
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		<title>By: vanessa delramos</title>
		<link>http://www.consumertraveler.com/columns/the-worst-place-on-a-cruise-ship/comment-page-1/#comment-5458</link>
		<dc:creator>vanessa delramos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Aug 2008 02:03:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tripso.com/?p=5059#comment-5458</guid>
		<description>I enjoy looking at the artwork. What is a waste to you is certainly an enjoyable way to spend some of my free time on a cruise ship. I enjoy museums and just general walking and people watching, and the art galleries offer that quiet time. I also meet people with my interests at the gallery in a way that the younger crowds meet at the disco. Are you an expert, or are you just a gossip columnist with your own agenda?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I enjoy looking at the artwork. What is a waste to you is certainly an enjoyable way to spend some of my free time on a cruise ship. I enjoy museums and just general walking and people watching, and the art galleries offer that quiet time. I also meet people with my interests at the gallery in a way that the younger crowds meet at the disco. Are you an expert, or are you just a gossip columnist with your own agenda?</p>
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		<title>By: Ned</title>
		<link>http://www.consumertraveler.com/columns/the-worst-place-on-a-cruise-ship/comment-page-1/#comment-4671</link>
		<dc:creator>Ned</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2008 03:13:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tripso.com/?p=5059#comment-4671</guid>
		<description>The values attributed to the so-called art offered for auction on the cruises on which I&#039;ve sailed were truly astounding to me, as were the number of folks bidding for it.  Moreover, the idea that someone would pay tens of thousands of dollars for artwork without an independent appraisal from a known appraiser boggles my mind.

It&#039;s be one thing to bid a couple of hundred dollars for a lithograph or watercolor you like (I won&#039;t even do that on a cruise.) but to spend thousands, in part because you believe it has real investment value is something else again.

I just don&#039;t understand how so many people who would never buy such art at home, think nothing of buying it at sea.  I didn&#039;t realize the champagne was that strong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The values attributed to the so-called art offered for auction on the cruises on which I&#8217;ve sailed were truly astounding to me, as were the number of folks bidding for it.  Moreover, the idea that someone would pay tens of thousands of dollars for artwork without an independent appraisal from a known appraiser boggles my mind.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s be one thing to bid a couple of hundred dollars for a lithograph or watercolor you like (I won&#8217;t even do that on a cruise.) but to spend thousands, in part because you believe it has real investment value is something else again.</p>
<p>I just don&#8217;t understand how so many people who would never buy such art at home, think nothing of buying it at sea.  I didn&#8217;t realize the champagne was that strong.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean Halliday</title>
		<link>http://www.consumertraveler.com/columns/the-worst-place-on-a-cruise-ship/comment-page-1/#comment-4626</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean Halliday</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 15:04:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Read true funny stories about life on cruise ships.

http://www.cruiseshipstories.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Read true funny stories about life on cruise ships.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.cruiseshipstories.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.cruiseshipstories.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: Karen Fawcett</title>
		<link>http://www.consumertraveler.com/columns/the-worst-place-on-a-cruise-ship/comment-page-1/#comment-4580</link>
		<dc:creator>Karen Fawcett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 19:13:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tripso.com/?p=5059#comment-4580</guid>
		<description>I find this outrageous and am amazed. Shouldn&#039;t the cruise line be responsible for the validity of these auctions and how they auction houses represent the paintings?

It&#039;s one thing  in a boat&#039;s casino.  Players know they&#039;re more likely to lose than win. But you go in with your eyes open.

I&#039;ve seen people buy jewelry in some off-beat places but always with the caveat that they could have it appraised by a reputable dealer and if the item didn&#039;t come nearly to the price paid  that they&#039;d be able to have a rebate.

I&#039;m horrified people are allowed to buy faux art with the idea it&#039;s the real thing. It&#039;s not only immoral but should be illegal. Talk about a captive audience being had ....and sometimes for the price of a few cheap drinks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find this outrageous and am amazed. Shouldn&#8217;t the cruise line be responsible for the validity of these auctions and how they auction houses represent the paintings?</p>
<p>It&#8217;s one thing  in a boat&#8217;s casino.  Players know they&#8217;re more likely to lose than win. But you go in with your eyes open.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve seen people buy jewelry in some off-beat places but always with the caveat that they could have it appraised by a reputable dealer and if the item didn&#8217;t come nearly to the price paid  that they&#8217;d be able to have a rebate.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m horrified people are allowed to buy faux art with the idea it&#8217;s the real thing. It&#8217;s not only immoral but should be illegal. Talk about a captive audience being had &#8230;.and sometimes for the price of a few cheap drinks.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew B</title>
		<link>http://www.consumertraveler.com/columns/the-worst-place-on-a-cruise-ship/comment-page-1/#comment-4571</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 14:54:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tripso.com/?p=5059#comment-4571</guid>
		<description>Fortunately, I had read about Park West before I went on my recent cruise, so my partner and I avoided the art gallery like the plague. We did, however, buy jewellery at one port (not at a ship recommended store though). Our attitude to this purchase was to assume that the metals we purchased were in fact what was represented, and that the stones were as represented. Not being in the jewellery business we could not possibly know what the &quot;real&quot; value of the pieces is, so assumed that there was pretty stiff mark up and the second hand value of these pieces would be based on the value of the metal and stones, and would not include any amount for the jeweller&#039;s creativity in developing the setting for the items. The price we paid reflected our attitude that these were beautiful item that we would wear regularly and could afford, and would not need to sell in a hurry.

My attitude to these &quot;art&quot; auctions is the same, if you see something you like and think will look good in your home, by all means buy it. Just don&#039;t assume you&#039;re buying anything with intrinsic value. In fact unlike a gold and diamond ring or bracelet, you won&#039;t even get the value of the metal and stones. I am always suspicious of sales people who have to lubricate you with champagne before you buy something (we did get a cocktail from the jeweller - after the sales were transacted).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fortunately, I had read about Park West before I went on my recent cruise, so my partner and I avoided the art gallery like the plague. We did, however, buy jewellery at one port (not at a ship recommended store though). Our attitude to this purchase was to assume that the metals we purchased were in fact what was represented, and that the stones were as represented. Not being in the jewellery business we could not possibly know what the &#8220;real&#8221; value of the pieces is, so assumed that there was pretty stiff mark up and the second hand value of these pieces would be based on the value of the metal and stones, and would not include any amount for the jeweller&#8217;s creativity in developing the setting for the items. The price we paid reflected our attitude that these were beautiful item that we would wear regularly and could afford, and would not need to sell in a hurry.</p>
<p>My attitude to these &#8220;art&#8221; auctions is the same, if you see something you like and think will look good in your home, by all means buy it. Just don&#8217;t assume you&#8217;re buying anything with intrinsic value. In fact unlike a gold and diamond ring or bracelet, you won&#8217;t even get the value of the metal and stones. I am always suspicious of sales people who have to lubricate you with champagne before you buy something (we did get a cocktail from the jeweller &#8211; after the sales were transacted).</p>
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		<title>By: John F</title>
		<link>http://www.consumertraveler.com/columns/the-worst-place-on-a-cruise-ship/comment-page-1/#comment-4567</link>
		<dc:creator>John F</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 13:29:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tripso.com/?p=5059#comment-4567</guid>
		<description>Great point Wrona. I forgot about the auction part of the equation. I guess it is what the market will bear.

I wonder if there are any shills in the audience? Would not surprise me!

I do know that the automatic card dealers in the casinos can be programmed in various ways...if the dealer sees too many winning hands, they can do an internal reshuffle, They can also shuffle parts of the decks so if there are a lot of face cards returned in the last few minutes, the shuffle can not include those.

Unfortunately the legally operating gaming places are not the only customers of the manufacturers.

Not saying the casinos at sea are doing this but it can be done. And they are not regulated by anyone other than their own casino department.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great point Wrona. I forgot about the auction part of the equation. I guess it is what the market will bear.</p>
<p>I wonder if there are any shills in the audience? Would not surprise me!</p>
<p>I do know that the automatic card dealers in the casinos can be programmed in various ways&#8230;if the dealer sees too many winning hands, they can do an internal reshuffle, They can also shuffle parts of the decks so if there are a lot of face cards returned in the last few minutes, the shuffle can not include those.</p>
<p>Unfortunately the legally operating gaming places are not the only customers of the manufacturers.</p>
<p>Not saying the casinos at sea are doing this but it can be done. And they are not regulated by anyone other than their own casino department.</p>
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		<title>By: Wrona</title>
		<link>http://www.consumertraveler.com/columns/the-worst-place-on-a-cruise-ship/comment-page-1/#comment-4565</link>
		<dc:creator>Wrona</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 12:45:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tripso.com/?p=5059#comment-4565</guid>
		<description>The difference though between jewelry onboard, which is a set price, and the art auctions is the nature of an auction is that you are bidding against someone else.  So just because you paid $5,000 for something worth $1,000 doesn&#039;t necessarily make it a fraud, if the bidding started really low.   Now if they are representing that it&#039;s a Picasso and not telling something it&#039;s a print, or are starting the bidding at $1,000 for something worth $200 that&#039;s another story.

When people ask me about buying anything onboard the ships, whether it be jewelery or art, I tell them buy it because you like it and will enjoy it, not because you think you are getting a deal, because you most likely aren&#039;t.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The difference though between jewelry onboard, which is a set price, and the art auctions is the nature of an auction is that you are bidding against someone else.  So just because you paid $5,000 for something worth $1,000 doesn&#8217;t necessarily make it a fraud, if the bidding started really low.   Now if they are representing that it&#8217;s a Picasso and not telling something it&#8217;s a print, or are starting the bidding at $1,000 for something worth $200 that&#8217;s another story.</p>
<p>When people ask me about buying anything onboard the ships, whether it be jewelery or art, I tell them buy it because you like it and will enjoy it, not because you think you are getting a deal, because you most likely aren&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: John F</title>
		<link>http://www.consumertraveler.com/columns/the-worst-place-on-a-cruise-ship/comment-page-1/#comment-4564</link>
		<dc:creator>John F</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 12:30:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tripso.com/?p=5059#comment-4564</guid>
		<description>Well, they ARE a subcontractor. I bought a nice piece of jewelry many years ago on a Princess ship for $8500 and when I had it scheduled and appraised at home, it appraised for $2400.

I know all about opinion and appraisals, but $6100 was just too much for me. I contacted Princess and they requested the ring to appraise. Their appraiser in California came back with a $2800 appraisal (and I could live with that--you say tomato) and they refunded me the difference with an apology and a promise to make sure their buying staff was aware.

The jewelry is also subcontracted. I imagine when there is that much of a difference, the cruiser has a great case to get some if not all of the money back. The cruise line could hold back payment on one sailing on one ship to the art dealer. They are in the catbird seat and they ought to do something about it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, they ARE a subcontractor. I bought a nice piece of jewelry many years ago on a Princess ship for $8500 and when I had it scheduled and appraised at home, it appraised for $2400.</p>
<p>I know all about opinion and appraisals, but $6100 was just too much for me. I contacted Princess and they requested the ring to appraise. Their appraiser in California came back with a $2800 appraisal (and I could live with that&#8211;you say tomato) and they refunded me the difference with an apology and a promise to make sure their buying staff was aware.</p>
<p>The jewelry is also subcontracted. I imagine when there is that much of a difference, the cruiser has a great case to get some if not all of the money back. The cruise line could hold back payment on one sailing on one ship to the art dealer. They are in the catbird seat and they ought to do something about it!</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Jaworski</title>
		<link>http://www.consumertraveler.com/columns/the-worst-place-on-a-cruise-ship/comment-page-1/#comment-4560</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Jaworski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 11:38:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tripso.com/?p=5059#comment-4560</guid>
		<description>In one example, a passenger paid $19,468 for three Dali prints, only to come home and have them appraised from $850 to $1,000. Another passenger went to a German art fraud detective with his purchases and was informed that they were photomechanical reproductions and not lithographs. The German detective referred to the pieces as “poster art.”</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In one example, a passenger paid $19,468 for three Dali prints, only to come home and have them appraised from $850 to $1,000. Another passenger went to a German art fraud detective with his purchases and was informed that they were photomechanical reproductions and not lithographs. The German detective referred to the pieces as “poster art.”</p>
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